Another dead orca at marineland?

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DawgByte II said:
You know "Z", I really don't think you have any right to criticize us for criticizing the treatment and/or wellbeing of a captive performing orca whale when you've only got a total of 3 posts on this board, including the one here!

We're simply stating our opinion on what we feel may be right or wrong for the care of an orca whale. What makes you think that we have to be a marine biologist to make any sort of statement or comment in regards to how the whole thing is/has been handled?

If that's the case, then wouldn't we all have to be engineers to make any criticisms on coasters? Puh-lease...

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Hey you know what? Opinions are great which is what web-forums are all about. However, when people start expressing opinions about topics as sensitive as animal welfare and pointing fingers at the people who provide for them day in and day out, they really should have a more informed opinion rather than such an ignorant one. Marineland may have some issues that need to be resolved, but I don't think they need some coaster enthusiasts to figure them out.

As far as my few postings & opinions, I like to check in every once and a while to see whats happening in the industry, but just because I don't sit around on a board all day doesn't mean my opinion is less valid than someone else who has been blabbing through half of puberty.

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IntaminFan397 said:
Last year in my Earth Science class we studied about the conditions that whales at MarineLand are subjected to

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Judging from your post, you obviously didn't study the killer whales.

1) As far as I'm aware, there are no harmful "chemicals" in the water. It's salt water, just like in the ocean.

2) Any chemicals that may be in the water certainly aren't the cause of fins bending over. In reality, scientists don't know what causes that to happen to whales in captivity, but it is thought to be caused by space restrictions. That is, the small size of the tank places pressure on the whales which somehow manifests itself in the fin curling.

3) In the wild, it is very common for orca whales to stay with their family for their entire lives. Orca pods are generally matrilineal family groups.

I'm not saying whether there is or isn't a problem at Marineland. Your facts, however, are incorrect.

-Nate

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z said:Marineland may have some issues that need to be resolved, but I don't think they need some coaster enthusiasts to figure them out.

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Right. Cause everyone here that said what they were thinking went out and told the park exactly how to fix the problem. And they wrote letters and had a huge campaign. No one here was doing anything except speculation, and no one that you're attacking stated anything as fact. It was all just conversation.

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As far as my few postings & opinions, I like to check in every once and a while to see whats happening in the industry, but just because I don't sit around on a board all day doesn't mean my opinion is less valid than someone else who has been blabbing through half of puberty.

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No one said you had a less valid opinion, thats what you accused them of having when you said that they shouldn't be sitting around discussing something they don't know about, remember? Come off of trying to insult anybody here. That was you just trying to get a reaction.

And what nate said about the fin bending over is correct. I don't think there have been any captive Killer Wales that didn't have that, correct? That has nothing to do with one place being cleaner than another or having chemicals that another doesn't. It has something to do with captivity, but no one knows exactly what yet.

The bent dorsal fin has nothing to do with being in captivity. A trainer I talked to in Orlando said that it's natural in a certain percentage of the animals.

Funny how that percentage is 100% with captive animals though, and that when animals with a straight fin are captured (dunno the last time that was) their fins curl over. And, according to Free Willy, they stay curled even if they are freed and get to jump over little boys... Anyone else wonder how many kids they went through before they got that scene right? I hope they filmed that one first...;)

Ha! Ok that comment made my day =)
Does the curled fin in "free" whales correlate to whales that are confined by predators or whatever to smaller spaces? Just seems like sort of a natural response to get more room.

Anyone else find every mention of "fluke" in this thread hilarious, or is that just me and my 4th grade whale-happy teacher? :)

Jeff, What nate said was correct in that he said it is commonly 'thought' to be caused by captivity. Infact I was just reading something the other day on that, and as I said, I'm pretty sure 100% of the captive killer wales have had the bent fin. But, again, as nate said, no one really knows what causes it.

I'm all for captivity of endangered large animals for purposes of study and re-population, but I don't really like the idea of animals that large parforming. Its not fair to them, but since there isn't anything saying people can't do that, then its just something to have to deal with.

It's not like their performing is unnatural, Tekno... the Circus is where it's cruel & unusual. There aren't tigers that jump through burning hoops or bears who ride unicycles out in the wild...

...but for Orca whales, it's natural for them to do these spectacular jumps & splashes. They're usually getting the best of treatments out there with a limitless supply of food, medical care, and love from the trainers.

...and correct me if I'm wrong, but NORMALLY (with the exception of these past couple deaths) don't Orca whales bred in captivity outlive those who are out in the wild? I'm not sure on the lifespan... whether it was 26yrs old or so, but I thought they outlived their wild counterparts by around 7 years or so.
...I know the case is defiantely true with other zoo animals that are well kept, but I thought that was the same case w/ Orca whales.

I've got dozens of pictures of whales from the old Cleveland Sea World and Orlando... none of them have bent dorsal fins. It has nothing to do with captivity, though "animal rights" activists try to make a case of it using a lot of anecdotal "evidence."

I read a paper once (shortly after seeing Keiko (Free Willy) in '97) that theorized the dorsal fin was a lot like the human ear, in that it's as distinct as a finger print, coming in all shapes and sizes. No significant study has been done in part because there are tens of thousands of the animals in the ocean and scientists can't get a handle on where they live and how their social structure affects migration. The same paper couldn't explain why other members of the Delphinidae family (i.e., dolphins) do not exhibit the same problem with their dorsal fins.

It was so much easier to find bona find scientific research on the Internet in those days!

Here's a sidenote:
one of my coworkers was looking over my shoulder as i was reading this post.
here comment was: I might never eat fried orca again...
I;ll ask here, but i think she meant ocra...

Okra. :)

lol, thanks, Strijder.

http://members.aol.com/OrcaInfo/page3.htm

http://members.aol.com/OrcaInfo/page4.htm

http://members.aol.com/OrcaInfo/page5.htm

This has always been a enlightening site for me.

It make me realize how many whales have been killed. Obviously there are a lot of different view on this matter. *** Edited 11/12/2004 8:51:18 PM UTC by Markieb***

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Jeff said:
I've got dozens of pictures of whales from the old Cleveland Sea World and Orlando... none of them have bent dorsal fins...the dorsal fin was a lot like the human ear, in that it's as distinct as a finger print, coming in all shapes and sizes.

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Interesting. Is it possible the pictures you're seeing of the whales without bent fins are all female? The dorsal fin of female orcas is relatively small compared to that of the males, which can be up to six feet tall. When I've seen the pictures of whales with the bent fins, it's generally the males with the very large fins and not the femals.

I've also never seen a picture of a whale in the wild with a bent fin, but a search of the net says otherwise. One particular site suggested that trauma could be the cause of the bent fin, as they witnessed a whale with a bent fin that was covered in tooth scrapes. Within years, the fin had returned to normal. If that's the case, it seems that capacity could cause the fins to bend if being in the tank is a stressful ("traumatic") situation for the whales. On the other hand, the bent fins apparently do exist rather commonly in the wild, so it doesn't seem to be a very serious issue.

DawgByte: The lifespan of an orca is 60-100 years in the wild, depending on the sex (females can live far longer) In captivity, average lifespan drops to 20-30 years.

-Nate

The life span info is disturbing. Many animals actually live longer in captivity than in the wild.