Another dead orca at marineland?

Monday, November 8, 2004 11:11 AM
Came across another blurb about a killer whale dieing at marineland park in canada, the second in 2 months, this one was only 6.
Anyone know anymore info.


http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/EdmontonSun/News/2004/11/06/702858.html

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Monday, November 8, 2004 11:29 AM
That's sad... That reminds of the Cleveland Zoo when we lost our elephants in close proximity.
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Monday, November 8, 2004 2:10 PM
Damn, they're dropping like flies...

...for a park who is trying to become THE premier marine park around the world with all this $160 million expansion... somehow, they can't seem to keep their orcas alive.

...this is really disappointing, because the first Orca was a performer, and I'm sure this one was as well... what is Marineland to do with regards to an Orca show? Just put on a 1-whale show?

...there has to be some accountability at risk here. All these whale deaths at the park isn't just because of the climate, isn't just because they're too old, just isn't because of the new construction & projects... there's some kind of negligance due to the people involved with the caring for these animals. Marine biologists? My ass they are... seems more like street performers to me.

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Monday, November 8, 2004 2:33 PM
Actually, at least when I visited, it was a one-whale show. The killer whale was only one part of a larger show that included sea lions, walruses, and a handful of dolphins. The rest of their orcas are located in a separate enclosure on the other side of the park, in which guests can interact with the animals for a nominal fee.
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Monday, November 8, 2004 2:46 PM
Just because humans HAVE been able to keep orcas alive in captivity in the past doesn't necessarily mean orcas are SUPPOSED to be kept that way. Killer whales are huge living creatures, and need spaces larger than we give them to live comfortably.

I'm not some tree-hugging PETA whack-job either. I'm just saying that orca maybe shouldn't be a circus animal...

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Monday, November 8, 2004 4:29 PM
PETA: People Eat Tastey Animals

I just wonder if it is somthing with the park, sick animals, or just flukes.

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Monday, November 8, 2004 4:42 PM
Unfortunately, the news article provides no hint as to the cause of death for either whale. It implies, but doesn't state that the second death was unexpected. It's pretty much impossible to say anything from the article other than "2 whales died."
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Monday, November 8, 2004 5:08 PM
Well, I wouldn't really blame MarineLand for it because they've done excellent jobs as far as their beluga care, as I hear nobody's been able to have the same reputation as Marineland as far as Beluga births...Maybe the weather is too cold for Orcas? Cuz they do migrate also, don't they?
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Monday, November 8, 2004 5:16 PM
Orcas are most commonly found in Arctic and Antarctic waters, so your hypothesis would be incorrect. *** Edited 11/8/2004 10:17:51 PM UTC by PhantomTails***
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Monday, November 8, 2004 7:35 PM
That's not true at all. Do a search. Orcas live in most of the world's major oceans.
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Monday, November 8, 2004 8:56 PM
Well, yes, that's true, but what I was getting at is that killer whales prefer colder water, and therefore should largely be unaffected by the Canadian winter at Marineland. A few websites that I looked at mention that killer whales may occasionally venture into warmer waters, which indicates that they spend most of their time closer to the poles.

Clicky

I've yet to find evidence that there are killer whales that spend all of their time in tropical water, and therefore will continue to operate under the assumption that the vast majority of them have experienced water temperatures similar to those that might occur at the park.

If you have evidence that goes against what I've read, then I'd love to read it--I just made that generalization after seeing the same thing posted on about five different credible websites.

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Monday, November 8, 2004 9:02 PM
A good majority (I think) are located off the coast of Vancouver & Portland in & around that area... basically in the Pacific ocean North of California.

I still say that Marineland officials are doing something wrong. This isn't just a coincidence or fluke. Sure, they got scores of Beluga whales... but what can a park do with a bunch of Belugas? They're not performing whales, they're just there to look & interact with.

Their whole logo of Marineland are a duo or trio of orcas jumping in sync out of the water. This kind of tragedy probably hits everyone working there, both full & part time workers, but blame is going to have to be administered somewhere. Can you blame it on the flu or pneimonia? Whales can get sick... but come on... two? 6 in the past 5yrs, I think it is?
This also dampers their breeding program a little. I'm not sure how many orcas are left, but I know that if this is a performing whale, it's a definate hit on them because they had a few for view & interaction while the others performed...

BTW: The you can't ***** that these animals would be better in the wild... especially if they were born captive. They may perform & do "tricks", but come on... they're VERY well fed, well cared for, and it's natural for them to do these kinds of "tricks" in the ocean anyway. They're just doing it on cue.
Their tank I ASSUME is fairly large as they recently in the past decade got a new one nearly double in size... but I wonder if that has anything to do with it, or if it's just really really bad luck?

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Tuesday, November 9, 2004 9:13 AM
when i went there the past season and actually wanted to see they show, they didn't have the whale be a part of it because it was "sick" and needed some "rest"...

looks like them whales got issues. poor things.

== alan

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Tuesday, November 9, 2004 9:22 AM
I can speak for the size of ML's tank, but the one at former 6flags/seaworld was looked huge when they had dolphins in it, not so big when they had shouka. granted, it was the same size when seaworld had shamu.
i don't know, if i were confined to my living room, 24/7, even if i were fed and well cared for, i'm not sure how i'd like it. but we're talking animals and not people.
What are the other options? set them free and maybe they'll get harpooned or caught in a fishing net.
It's a rough balance.
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Tuesday, November 9, 2004 11:00 AM
Alternative, not to let 'em free... build 'em a bigger natural habitat tank away from the public & let them free in there while not performing. I'm sure the tanks they got are large enough now... but are they really? How about a 3 or 4 million gallon tank out of the public's way off to the side of the park. They have uber-land that they could build a virtual ocean if they wanted.
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Tuesday, November 9, 2004 1:03 PM
No matter how big a tank is, it's still a tank. As for letting them go, you're right, an orca born in captivity probably wouldn't adjust well to ocean life. But whose fault is that, the whale's or the humans who captured its parents?
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Wednesday, November 10, 2004 8:55 PM
Wow, I didn't know we had so many animal experts on a coaster forum? Everyone should probably stick to criticizing what they know best and try not to speculate or theorize about what is best for captive marine life. Side note, their tanks are typically kept at a chilling 52 degrees regardless of seasonal temperatures. I think they can bare the harsh Canadian winters.
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Wednesday, November 10, 2004 9:42 PM
You know "Z", I really don't think you have any right to criticize us for criticizing the treatment and/or wellbeing of a captive performing orca whale when you've only got a total of 3 posts on this board, including the one here!

We're simply stating our opinion on what we feel may be right or wrong for the care of an orca whale. What makes you think that we have to be a marine biologist to make any sort of statement or comment in regards to how the whole thing is/has been handled?

If that's the case, then wouldn't we all have to be engineers to make any criticisms on coasters? Puh-lease...

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Thursday, November 11, 2004 2:10 AM
Last year in my Earth Science class we studied about the conditions that whales at MarineLand are subjected to, and it affects their health a lot. The chemicals in the water aren't good for them at all, and I'm pretty sure that thats how their fins curl over (In the wild, their fins don't do that at all). The chemicals can kill the whales if they're exposed to them for an extensive amount of time, which most whales at MarineLand are. Also, Orca whales stay with their family most of the time, and they do not get along or make friends with any other whale that isn't in their family, creating a lot of stress on them (When their in captivity, they're seperated from their family). The tanks also are way too small.

Theres a lot of information about MarineLand's Belugas here:

http://www.zoocheck.com/programs/marine/mland/MLbeluga.shtml

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Thursday, November 11, 2004 3:27 AM

z said:
Everyone should probably stick to criticizing what they know best and try not to speculate or theorize about what is best for captive marine life.

Ok, I'm not going to speculate or theorize about captive marine life. I'll just stick with "what I know" -

Captive whales have a bad habit of dying at Marineland. And not of old age as they were at the earlier part of their life span. There's a fact for you.

I bet you liked it better when it was speculation, no?

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