Another 4D please.................

I provide information because first and foremost I am an enthusiast. Also, I usually never give out specific information unless its been OKed to be let out. I have always stated my information and left it up to you to believe it or not. I have nothing to prove to anyone. I simply think that the information should be out there to the people that actually keep the parks in business..US!
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WCUSA-The World's largest theme park is coming!
Theme parks will NEVER be the same!

Didn't Arrow go out of business? I thought so, and the laid off emloyees formed kumback coasters. Could these people be the builder of the next X? Or what about Q? :)
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Rollercoasters are my life, I think about them more than I think about....wait, thats all I think about :)

Proud Owner of www.coasterkingdom.cjb.net

Glenn said:
Didn't Arrow go out of business? I thought so, and the laid off emloyees formed kumback coasters. Could these people be the builder of the next X? Or what about Q?

Arrow is still VERY MUCH in business. They filed for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy protection. They still have around 20 employees left.
On a side note, remember 99% of all Setpoint employees used to work at Arrow as well. Most coaster companies today branched from either Arrow or Intamin.

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WCUSA-The World's largest theme park is coming!
Theme parks will NEVER be the same!

Ex-Vekoma employees formed Kumbak Coasters, not Arrow.

-Nate

Chris, I appreciate your information and willingness to share, but I have to take issue with one comment: enthusiasts do not keep parks in business*. We are but a drop in the bucket of their annual attendance revenue. But we can be very good word-of-mouth for them.

Matthew [*who realizes in rare cases like Arnold's Park or Whalom enthusiasts might have an impact in keeping a park in business]

Chris Godsey said:
"Ok, I asked my Arrow rep when the next 4d will be built .... Below is a couple of excerpts from an e-mail he sent me...."

While I wouldn't doubt you were told that, do you really think conversations like that are for public consumption? If I repeated everything I've heard like that I wouldn't have a friend left in the industry.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com, Sillynonsense.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"

Comatose said:
"B:TR was hardly as radically different from its predecessors as X"

On the contrary, back in 1992 the "inverted" coaster was an extremely radical from it's predecessors. Riding the track on the outside of a loop, in-line twists, and uder the track in ski-lift seats were all very new, and the first summer it opened, it had humungous lines of people that wanted to try it out. It was definitely a ride that make people say, "Wow" and changed the industry forever. The number of inverted rides being built sky-rocketed because the crowds loved them so much.

I'm not sure if the inverted coasters was AS radical as X, but it definitely turned some heads, and started a whole new kind of riding sensation.

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Sept. 11th 2001, Slayer released God Hates Us All. The song "Disciple" uncannily describes the events of that day, as well as the anthrax letters that followed.
--Slayer: Thrash band, or the next Nostradamus?

*** This post was edited by CPgenius on 2/27/2002. ***

CPgenius, it was not radical. The only change that was really needed from Arrow's suspended coasters was a rigid track-train connection. It only looked radical, technically it can't be too much different.

And I just want to get something fixed before it comes to be a problem. I want to point out Chris said bankruptcy PROTECTION, not bankruptcy. I hate how people always mix that up. When it happend to Vekoma some people went on for a few months beliving they were bankrupt.

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I still have no signature.

Thanks Chris,
For answering my question. I hope I didn't read too much into your answer when you said that "if" a park orders one within the next few months that it could be ready for 03. I hope "if" means "when". Anyway,I thinks it's wonderful you shared what you've learned. It's fantastic you understand the importants and the responceability of sharing what you know. It says volumes about your character.Don't allow others to judge you. Egos get bruised (LOL). Your definately in the right place. Thanks Again.

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Buy American: Arrow,Morgan,S&S,Set Point,Premier,CCI,GCI

Coaster Bob said:
Don't allow others to judge you. Egos get bruised

Its not an issue of my ego. Its just that I don't believe everything I read, no matter how well it is presented.

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If the shoe fits, find another one.

As Chris mentioned earlier;It's up to you to decided wheather it's true or not.It's your choice. I respect what you say. But I choose to take a leap of faith and believe him. I hope you weren't offended by my post. It didn't have anything to do with you.
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Buy American: Arrow,Morgan,S&S,Set Point,Premier,CCI,GCI

Jeff said:
While I wouldn't doubt you were told that, do you really think conversations like that are for public consumption? If I repeated everything I've heard like that I wouldn't have a friend left in the industry.

Well, I didn't post the rest of the e-mail that had some very specific information regarding some future projects. If I thought I would make Arrow mad by what I posted, I wouldn't have done so. Most of the time, sales reps are very quick to give out that kind of information. If they tell me a future potential client, I would think it is for public consumption. If you feel that I am giving too much information out, please feel free to let me know or edit my posts.

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WCUSA-The World's largest theme park is coming!
Theme parks will NEVER be the same!

Coaster Bob said:
Thanks Chris,
For answering my question. I hope I didn't read too much into your answer when you said that "if" a park orders one within the next few months that it could be ready for 03. I hope "if" means "when".

No, that was an exact excerpt from my e-mail. That was Arrow's answer, not mine. I received that e-mail in January also, so I wouldn't count on seeing a 4d at least until late 2003/early 2004.

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WCUSA-The World's largest theme park is coming!
Theme parks will NEVER be the same!

Didn't mean to misqoute. It didn't translate to what I was thinking. Thanks for the clarifacation.

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Buy American: Arrow,Morgan,S&S,Set Point,Premier,CCI,GCI

Anyone interested in 4D should just probably order one.

creating two stations might possibably increase capacity???

Arrow obviously, knows what challenges X experienced and has learned from trial and error.

This wait and see mind set is a little silly when you consider Sixflags buying 4 Vekoma Super Invert Shuttles, 2 Flying coasters.

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Buy American: Arrow,Morgan,S&S,Set Point,Premier,CCI,GCI

Coaster Bob said:
This wait and see mind set is a little silly when you consider Sixflags buying 4 Vekoma Super Invert Shuttles, 2 Flying coasters.

SF got a huge discount by buying 4 of the GIBs. Considering they were substantially less than the 4d, it was a safer investment at the time. Hindsight is definitely 20/20 in this case. Remember the average 4d is close to 20 million with a custom being much more. That is a substantial risk to take in this economy. I think Gary Story made the right choice in this case. They need to see how much downtime it incurrs over the course of the season. If it's anything like the GIBs, it will be hard for him to justify more 4d purchases.

Also, a second station will increase capacity BIGTIME! ;)

*** This post was edited by Chris Godsey on 3/1/2002. ***

I thought X was $14 mill.

Not a bad investment if you consider the value of the ride experience and technology. It contains about twice the steel as Goliath. A hyper prototype which is cool.

If I'm correct when I say it was $14 mill it's a far better value than say a Intamin Impulse for $9 Million.

Also, If Arrow has the ability to contract the manufacturing wouldn't the price come down.

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Buy American: Arrow,Morgan,S&S,Set Point,Premier,CCI,GCI

Since X was a prototype, it was more than the 14 million dollars mentioned. SF covered some of the R&D cost to make it a reality. After all the costs were included when you factor in the rework and redesigns it was around 20 million total. The smaller versions they are marketing are anywhere from 14-18 million. A custom 4d with launch capabilities for example are much more than that.

What's the specs of say a smaller version. I bet Arrow can create a 4d on a pretty small footprint. Didn't Jeff say that Arrow can design the 4D on one plane? How would that work? Would the train when leaving the station go thru a raven turn under the station than travel up the lift? Or go directly to the lift and travel under the station and into a raven turn on the way back to the station?

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Buy American: Arrow,Morgan,S&S,Set Point,Premier,CCI,GCI

*** This post was edited by Coaster Bob on 3/1/2002. ***

The main problem with the 4D design, is that it's too BIG! The traks is heavy, the trains are heavy, and that requires alot of space. But most of all, it needs height. You woulnd't imagine how a 100ft tall 4D would be like, for not thinking of a terrain one!!! That's why it's only the biggest, of the biggest parks that will get a 4D. Where B & M and Intamin, will still be the park's favorite choices, because they can deliver the thrill, without using too much space and beeing too ugly.

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