ACE Coaster Classics: Do they compare today?
Charles Nungester said:
Such as the case where the guy wiggled out of Anaconda trying to show off.
That was actually Shockwave where the wiggled out and fell out and later died.
Zimm said:
Charles Nungester said:
Such as the case where the guy wiggled out of Anaconda trying to show off.
That was actually Shockwave where the wiggled out and fell out and later died.
Your exactly right, Sorry
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Charles Nungester
167 coasters and hopes to be over 200 by the end of 2002 :)
I'm not sure how many woodies I've ridden that bear the ACE Classic status, but I do know that, for the most part, I prefer a classic over something recent. Yes, there are exceptions as Legend, Boulderdash, Raven, and Ghostrider are all in my Top 10. But the rest of my Top 20 is filled with coasters like Vancouver Playland's Coaster, CP's Blue Streak, SFWoA's Big Dipper, SCBB's Giant Dipper, Bell's Zingo, Joyland's Coaster, Knoebels' Phoenix, Belmont Park Dipper, Coney Cyclone, SFA's Wild One, and so on.
I feel it is very important to patronize the parks that keep the classics running, in hopes we can preserve them for future generations.
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2002 - the year of LoCoSuMo!!
Mamoosh,
While I agree with your assessment of Knoebels Phoenix and SFA's Wild One as being classic... they do not meet the ACE deffinition of Classic (mainly because of the seat divider)... and that is where I have a problem with that list.
As stated... next season a park could build a coaster that uses wooden trains with only lap bars, no seat dividers and no head rests, and it could allow you to choose your own seat. This coaster, while being brand new, would meet the ACE standard... while some of those true old classics (my deffinition, not theirs) that you mentioned, would not. It really doesn't make any sense.
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"I wasn't always this cynical, but then I started kindergarden..."
Obviously, ACE is soon going to have to face fact and revise their "Coaster Classic" requirements.
When this "classic" labelling started, it came at a time that permitted coasters to use single bar restraints for two riders, bench seats with no seat dividers and no seat belts etc.
Today a park cannot install a coaster without said items. Insurance, and manufacturers prevent otherwise. Also, many established coasters have been altered in order to keep them operating in an era when the public attention is scrutinizing the safetly of parks and amusement attractions.
Take for instance the John Allen Junior Coasters located at the various Paramount Parks. Insurance has required that seat belts be added to the seats of the various Scooby Doo, Beastie and Ghoster Coaster woodies to help secure the little ones. Unfortunately, there may have been a few close calls with children trying to jump out of the seats before the train reached it's final stop in station. Because of the single buzz bar and lack of seat divider, kids could wriggle out making it terribly dangerous.
The parks and insurance companies recognize these necessities and modify the rides in such a way to keep them from becoming a safety hazzard. The parks that do so act in a proactive way rather than reactive. They are guaranteeing that their ride will continue to operate in the future without the threat of lawsuits or attach by public officials.
However, because of said changes, ACE deems it necessary to "drop" the coasters from the classic list. I personally find it ridiculous that just because a coaster may be modified for safety's sake, that ACE sees that as an of treason, or justifies it loosing an *esteemed* ACE title.
General coaster buffs are also to blame here. Too often I have heard how a park has "ruined" a ride because they installed single lap bars, or use trains with seat dividers etc. It is absurd to think that these modifications come as some sort of concious desire for the park to "ruin" the ride. Rather, I see it as the park ensuring that a good ride will last a good amount of time, operate safely and adhere to new rules being governed more and more every day.
I would much rather ride a coaster that has extra safety items added, than to see it torn down because of an accident. The enthusiast mentality is once again backwards in the thought that safety is not priority, rather the most out of control or wild experience is.
By not changing their "Coaster Classic" requirements in the future, ACE will most likely end up without any coasters on the list.
Actually, I think ACE would be much better suited to deem coasters a classic once they reach a certain milestone. Such as an anniversary, or amount of riders. Possibly a combination of the two would be appropriate. That way ACE would be celebrating/rewarding parks for installing a coaster that has been enjoyed for many years by many people. To me, that makes a classic. Not whether or not it the turns and drops sit me down on my riding partners lap.
Shaggy
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Shaggy
A.K.A. John K.
Shaggy - did we mind meld this morning? Its scary how you expressed my thoughts so precisely. Of course now you'll be teased because you "think like Moosh" but you'll get used to it. LOL!
To comment about one of your points: I have never understood the general whining about lap bars. How a coaster like Raven can be "ruined" by changing from buzz bars to lap bars is a sentiment I just don't understand. Some people just need something to complain about, I guess.
I've said it before, I'll say it again: put me on a coaster..ANY coaster...and I'm happy. Buzz bar, lap bar, OSTR, stapled or not, so long as I'm riding, I'm happy. IMHO *that* is what our hobby is all about.
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2002 - the year of LoCoSuMo!!
Mamoosh said:
I'm not sure how many woodies I've ridden that bear the ACE Classic status, but I do know that, for the most part, I prefer a classic over something recent. Yes, there are exceptions as Legend, Boulderdash, Raven, and Ghostrider are all in my Top 10. But the rest of my Top 20 is filled with coasters like Vancouver Playland's Coaster, CP's Blue Streak, SFWoA's Big Dipper, SCBB's Giant Dipper, Bell's Zingo, Joyland's Coaster, Knoebels' Phoenix, Belmont Park Dipper, Coney Cyclone, SFA's Wild One, and so on.
I feel it is very important to patronize the parks that keep the classics running, in hopes we can preserve them for future generations.
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2002 - the year of LoCoSuMo!!
Come on Moosh, We all know that us big guys love classics because we can Moosh your partner :)
Chuck, whos brother is as big as him and we both love to beat the crap out of one another without fighting :)
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Charles Nungester
167 coasters and hopes to be over 200 by the end of 2002 :)
Ok, so if a seatbelt is sufficient to keep a rider in his area, why do we need all the other B.S?
I don't agree that all the retraint is necessary do to liablity. There are safe riding laws in some states that basically say if the rider was disobeying safe ride practices the park is not liable. I also see Gerstlauers as providing a near classic ride style. The bar dose nothing but keep you from comming out and generally keeps riders in their seat, No dividers but a slightly concaved seat and also the G trains use the full width of the cars where PTC have sideboards.
Im not complaining, As moosh said I am happy to ride a coaster, I do prefer ride that allow some freedoms and are not cramped. Phoenix is a great ride, Now IMHO it would be even better without the dividers :)
I love Raven, and will not comment about the difference between it with buzzbars and ratchets, I will only say that I'd love to ride it the other way to form my own opinion.
Chuck, who is over critical at times but flat loves a classic style ride on a woodie and prefers not to be chained and shackeled. :)
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Charles Nungester
167 coasters and hopes to be over 200 by the end of 2002 :)
Chuck,
Gerstlauer trains lap bars just last season went through a total re-hab because one completely broke while a rider was on Boss. Last season, my PTC lap bar popped up following the first bunny hill on Thunder Run and would not go back down. Thank goodness for seatbelt and other "extras."
Also, as a side, Gerstlauer trains can never be considered an ACE classic because they have bucket seats. Nor can any steel coaster for that matter.
I guess I just don't understand the logic to ACE's deeming something a classic. I personally find it flawed.
Shaggy
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Shaggy
A.K.A. John K.
lata,
jeremy
--who will be calling Chuck "Kunta" from now on...
Shaggy said:
Chuck,
Gerstlauer trains lap bars just last season went through a total re-hab because one completely broke while a rider was on Boss. Last season, my PTC lap bar popped up following the first bunny hill on Thunder Run and would not go back down. Thank goodness for seatbelt and other "extras."
I have nothing against seatbelts, I don't feel they impeed the ride expience much. I have had simular lapbar experience on several coasters, Thunder Run, Blue Streak with bars popping open.
Also, as a side, Gerstlauer trains can never be considered an ACE classic because they have bucket seats. Nor can any steel coaster for that matter.
I understand that, I never suggested ACE coaster classic status, I just said it gives a more classic style ride by allowing some side movement, Villain actually had me riding airborne leaning against my brother and so did Legend in a couple spots. Divider equipt trains do not allow this and I at times such as Shivering Timbers turnaround find a divider to actually hurt you as your top half wants to lean outward around the turn around but the divider locks your lower body and you are in essence bent in half!
I guess I just don't understand the logic to ACE's deeming something a classic. I personally find it flawed.
Colosos has the intamin T bar and belts. Im just wonding how great that would be on a woodie! As I love that design on their steel hypers that actually give a woodie feel.
I understand you view and am not arguing safety
I actually enjoy conversation with you and others on simular issues, It makes time fly.
Shaggy
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Shaggy
A.K.A. John K.
Chuck
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Charles Nungester
167 coasters and hopes to be over 200 by the end of 2002 :)
2Hostyl said:
Maybe it's because my behind has never been been sandwiched between the sideboard and divider that I dont have a problem with the dividers. Moreover, I prefer them as I do not always like to be "pressing flesh" with the person sitting next to me. Furthermore, with the exception of when the old fart working Gwazi stapled me, I've not had a problem with the L-shaped bars.
lata,
jeremy
--who will be calling Chuck "Kunta" from now on...
Now whats that supposed to mean? Is that a racial slur or a fat joke?
Chuck, who will be the one laughing when you have thyroid problems that cause you to gain weight by just looking at food :)
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Charles Nungester
167 coasters and hopes to be over 200 by the end of 2002 :)
My very first ride on a coaster was a "classic" (now defunct), that had a bench seat and a single lap bar. No seatbelts. In fact, back then even cars didn't have seatbelts.
But, I was a very tiny 8 year old and literally flew above the seat. The only thing keeping me in was my father's leg pressed against mine. Or at least that's the way it felt.
Blue Streak had bench seats, a single lapbar and seatbelts when my husband and I took my son on it for the first time. A very large person (my husband) riding with a very small person (my son when he was 8) meant that seatbelt did very little to keep my son in his seat.
When CP added the divided seats and individual lapbars, I was disappointed. But, as a parent, I understand the need for safety. I would have preferred they kept the bench seat and single lapbar, but added individual seatbelts. Maybe that would have helped to keep it's "classic" status.
Blue Streak will always be classic to me anyway.
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I'd rather die living than live like I'm dead
jeremy
--"Day is never finished....Massa got me workin'...one day Massa set me free..." Cartman "South Park"
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www.tripowered.com - you need to see this!
SOAP BOX WARNING - opinion on lap bars [NOT OSTRs] to follow. Your mileage may vary!
Look...I understand that we all want to have room to move, especially when its room to move off the seat when those wonderful negative Gs come into play or to squish a friend on a lateral. I also understand that being stapled can be painful. But let's face it, folks...sometimes not getting the room we want just happens. Sometimes lap bars come down, so what are you going to do? Spend the ride looking down and concentrating on holding up your lap bar? That's like walking thru the forest and looking at the ground...you miss everything!
I remember when the PTCs for Knoebels' Twister were discovered at the park. When word got out that the train had the "dreaded orange lap bars" immediately people started to complain...before a single ride was taken!
I've found that if I just ignore what is happening to my lap bar and enjoy the ride, I'm much happier when I get to the final brake run. Obviously not everyone feels the same, and that's fine. As I get older I find that its all about attitude, and if you enter a situation looking for the negative you're definitely going to find it.
OK...end of rant. Flame away.
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2002 - the year of LoCoSuMo!!
*** This post was edited by Mamoosh on 3/12/2002. ***
Moosh, Whos flaming you? Like I said, I enjoy a coaster really no matter how it's restrained as long as its not painful (Rebbel Yell comming down on the divider). I was only pointing out that it is just fun to slide across a seat ect. I will leave it at that.
Jeremy, I meant no insult by the Chained and Shackled statement. I apologize if it was taken that way. I Look forward to meeting you somday and Im well aware that you shoot from the hip :)
Shaggy, I agree, Safety must be the first concern on all rides and In a sence I see where the coaster classic status promotes possible but not probable saftey concerns.
C.P Lady, Like you say Blue Streak and many coasters like it give a extra thrill to some with only benches and buzzbars. I know that thrill still lives with youngins on trains no matter what they have as I took my GF's Son on Racer and his head was as high as mine :) Was he scared? No! He wanted to go again, 5 years old and he loved his first adult coaster :)
Again, I would rather see dividers and all the other restraints than No coaster at all. In most cases they are very fun anyways. I never worry about holding a bar because Im to involve in the ride having fun to do that.
Chuck
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Charles Nungester
167 coasters and hopes to be over 200 by the end of 2002 :)
The fires are burning and the flames are raging today...Is the moon in retrograde (or some other "hippie crap")? Gotta love that "big-boned" character Eric...he may piss you off, but you'll never wonder how he feels! Not like some of you guys hiding your true feelings...LMAO
no, my "torch" burned out a few years ago, I'm pretty mellow these days...there's LOADS of definitions of what might make a coaster a "classic", and ACE has their own. Noone outside those similarly "afflicted" with coaster addiction really cares a bit about the designation.
Personally, I like the idea of thousands of riders, decades of rides, etc. But I also feel for the "individual restraints" thing. Just MY opinion, but I'd take buzzbars any day, any ride, any time. The only individual laps I've ever seen that would NOT fall during the ride were at KG's Twister...and my "sources" tell me they were specifically requested, and that JUMP up onto the brakes, WOW! As for seat dividers, it depends on the ride...CI Cyclone with dividers would suffer (although the kid I *nearly* crushed probably wouldn't have complained a bit). Headrests are an impediment to the view, and probably the one "criterium" (didn't realize it had been THAT long since Latin class, LMAO) I really don't see as important...
If you ride BD or some other "classic" and ENJOY the ride AND its history, then they compare favorably. I know that the one trip to KW has made me want to go back *badly*...but I'm a sucker for the history, it's something I almost never FEEL on a steelie (sorry Maggie, you're still a good ride)...
Finally, "The List" of ACE Coaster Classics, for your debating/comparing needs: (I see I've been on 6 so far, but work's taking me to PCB next month, so I'll get to Miracle Strip for #7, and a John Allen at that....)
http://www.aceonline.org/classics.htm
*** This post was edited by rollergator on 3/12/2002. ***
Chuck - no one is flamming me...yet, at least. I know my opinion of lab bars isn't always a popular one, as evidenced by the constant complaining and whinning I see by many enthusiasts.
R-gator - of course most of us would prefer buzzbars over ratcheting, but you can't get worked up over what you cannot change. Better a coaster w/ those dreaded orange lap bars than no coaster at all, right?
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2002 - the year of LoCoSuMo!!
*** This post was edited by Mamoosh on 3/12/2002. ***
'moosh, gotta disagree there, I'd rather not ride at all......j/k, entertaining myself once again...;)
I appreciate that parks who take an interest in safety will, in the long run, get fewer lawsuits and survive longer...and I'd way rather enjoy the ride I DO have than complain about the one that's gone forever. Still, gotta love those parks that go out of their way (KG, HW, and others) to make sure the rides don't lose their fun-factor in the rush to safety...
As noted earlier, absolute safety is NOT a viable option, still unsure whether we can prevent insurance companies from taking over the world...
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