A Voyage question...

Sunday, December 9, 2007 1:01 PM
eightdotthree's avatar I think its time for GG to design their own trains, its clear that the PTC box trains don't track well enough and PTC doesn't seem to care. I will take a PTC on an out and back or a less aggressive coaster any day, but almost everything by GG do not fit into either of those categories.
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Sunday, December 9, 2007 1:41 PM
Sure, GCI coasters may not receive the same amount of retracking that a GG coaster needs, but also look at the level of intensity of the two different types of rides. The GCI coasters for the most part are just twister coasters that barely reach over 60 miles per hour. Now look at most of the GG coasters. . . Do you see the difference? The Gravity Group has been designing more intense rides, therefore, more work is needed.
The number one reason you know you are an engineer: The world revolves around you because YOU chose the coordinate system.
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Sunday, December 9, 2007 2:45 PM
Roar East was in horrible condition this year. The bottom of the first drop into the reverse was terrible. Is it a maintenance issue (when Wild One was rocking as always), or is it the trains? We also had a major drought this year, and I don't think that helped out at all with how the ride rode.

By the way, even though the MF-trains might track better, I still despise them with a passion since the lapbar has a habit of pinning me right in my stomach.

I've tried pushing back on the lapbar when I rode Kentucky Rumbler and that only worked on two out of three rides.

Can't someone come up with a better lapbar at GCI?

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Sunday, December 9, 2007 5:29 PM
GCI coasters track wonderfully and they seem to hold up well. Unfortunately, they're also just plain boring. That's obviously just my opinion, but no GCI coaster does anything like the Voyage does. Smooth means little to me when the coaster is yawn-inducing.

But I guess I must just be brainwashed...

-Nate
*** Edited 12/9/2007 10:30:50 PM UTC by coasterdude318***

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Sunday, December 9, 2007 7:10 PM
Damn, wish there were like 5 parks that payed attention to their woodies like Holidayworld.

Last summer, Thunder Run had missing pads (yes, complete missing side pads in some seats, so you rode sitting next to a loose wooden board with holes in it) and was rough, had drooping ribbon boards and handrails. Hmmm.... guess it wasn't in the 'six flags budget' that's the answer we got anyway.

It really would be cool to see either PTC hire some good engineers and redo everything, or have GG design their own trains. Those lapbars are horrible. One of the 'downfalls' of the wooden coaster. I think there would have been less accidents (use your imagination, I know what I'm thinking of) with the old 'buzz bars'.

Who has ridden a woodie with their head back against one of those PTC 'Volvo' headrests? You probably wouldn't live through it.

But geez, if you have a problem with Holidayworld, go spend your time at KI on their wonderful out of control Beast 'terrain coaster'. enjoy!

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Sunday, December 9, 2007 7:46 PM

Coasterphan said:Don't worry, give it time, others will see the light eventually. BTW, others already do, they just tend to brush it aside, because it's Voyage, it has to be #1.BTW, name me one GCII that has been retracked, or a thread in which somebody has brought the neccesity of a GCII to be retracked.How's Boulderdash running after it's retracking? Who took care of that work.........That's right GCII. *** Edited 12/9/2007 3:10:57 PM UTC by Coasterphan*** *** Edited 12/9/2007 3:17:33 PM UTC by Coasterphan***

Are you really that dense? Of course the trains have probably 90 percent to do with all the retracking but you claim it's a nightmare. FYI Beast has about half of it retracked every year and some of that more than once in a season which IMHO is far less agressive than Voyage

Don't tell me what to think, The darn thing blows every other wooden coaster I've ridden out of the water, This includes ST, BD, Thunderbolt and many of the other TOP woodies. It don't have to be number one. It is in my book and aparently is in more people's than it isn't.

Chuck, who respects a thought out post but this is rediculous.

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Sunday, December 9, 2007 7:51 PM

coasterdude318 said:GCI coasters track wonderfully and they seem to hold up well. Unfortunately, they're also just plain boring. That's obviously just my opinion, but no GCI coaster does anything like the Voyage does. Smooth means little to me when the coaster is yawn-inducing.But I guess I must just be brainwashed...-Nate *** Edited 12/9/2007 10:30:50 PM UTC by coasterdude318***

Your right and IMHO there is nothing wrong with the DESIGN's of TGG, There well supported (Anything past CCI days) and well constructed. The trains just won't do what there design does. Rebbie himself says it's pushing the limits of what his trains can do. So whats he do? RE-ENGINEERS THE SAME CRAP!

I agree, Find someone to build you fully articulated Trailors and 90 percent of Voyages problems will be eliminated, Along with Legend, Boulderdash and all agressive coasters.

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Sunday, December 9, 2007 9:10 PM
Has anyone thought that Holidayworld might be listening to enthusiasts and the GP and trying to improve the ride in spots to make it even better. If you have a number 1 coaster and you leave it alone, eventually you won't have a number 1 coaster.

Intimidator 305 the tallest most hated coaster nobody has ever ridden...

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Monday, December 10, 2007 9:45 AM
A number of places along Voyage's track have received attention this fall, most notably right before (going into) the 5th tunnel. There is a slightly steeper bank on the turn (to shift stresses on the track).

Thanks, Paula


Paula Werne
Holiday World

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Monday, December 10, 2007 12:32 PM
I think people are getting out of context here. It really does not matter in this world if one likes Voyage or not, but the fact that a quality company such as GCII sometimes needs/wants to keep their creations in excellent condition. An enthusiast points out something that might need work, and we wait to see if there is a response from GCII or Holiday World.

It's quite simple really.


If you think things can't get worse it's probably because you lack sufficient imagination.

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Monday, December 10, 2007 1:08 PM
Jeff's avatar What are you talking about? A designer does their best to engineer a ride that can be maintained, but ultimately it's up to the owner. You want to see a GCI that's a steaming pile of crap? Ride Gwazi. What a sad ride that is. GCI has nothing to do with it.

Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog - Silly Nonsense

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Monday, December 10, 2007 1:45 PM

coasterdude318 said:
GCI coasters track wonderfully and they seem to hold up well. Unfortunately, they're also just plain boring. That's obviously just my opinion, but no GCI coaster does anything like the Voyage does. Smooth means little to me when the coaster is yawn-inducing.

I don't know if I'd go as far as boring.

That having been said, the very VERY nice new GCII twenty minutes from home (and mind you, I like it a lot) still doesn't crack my top 5 woodie list. Even after non-stop after-dark ERT.

I guess you'd have to call my girls brainwashed, too. Cuz they'll rate my favorite CCIs/GGs (forgot Hades was a GG design for a minute!) about the local GCII just like I would...

-'Playa

*** Edited 12/10/2007 8:11:05 PM UTC by CoastaPlaya***


NOTE: Severe fecal impaction may render the above words highly debatable.

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Monday, December 10, 2007 2:55 PM
rollergator's avatar GCIIs w/MFs vs GCIIs w/PTCs....two entirely different animals, IMO.

I used to advocate hard for the MFlyers - they DO reduce maintenance needs. Now I'm leaning a little the other way, the coasters seem to be more aggressive when running PTCs. Of course, I haven't been to HP since they got MFlyers, so I'm really making this "judgement call" based on incomplete evidence.


As far as The Voyage? Yes, please, another helping is vastly appreciated. As long as HW wants to run it the way it is, I'll keep queueing up.... ;)

*** Edited 12/10/2007 9:35:56 PM UTC by rollergator***

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Monday, December 10, 2007 4:26 PM

rollergator said: As long as HW wants to run it the way it is, I'll keep queueing up.... ;)

Is that a threat? :)

Paula


Paula Werne
Holiday World

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Monday, December 10, 2007 4:35 PM
rollergator's avatar ^AND a promise.... :)
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Monday, December 10, 2007 4:53 PM
Thank you Paula for replying to my post. I had no clue it was going to get this out-of-control!!!!! Cant wait to ride during Holiwood Nights ( and see you too)..

Byron..
At home with the Rampage

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Monday, December 10, 2007 5:39 PM
A GCII that has been re-tracked? Hersheypark's Wildcat has been retracked several times, and I wouldn't be surprised if the ongoing troubles with that ride were not at least partially responsible for GCII getting into the coaster train business...not to mention Hersheypark's decision to convert Wildcat over to a set of GCII trains.

At least on a per-axle basis, PTC trains are the heaviest modern trains around. They are also the least flexible trains available, and companies like the Gravity Group are pushing them to their mechanical limits for rides like The Voyage. In fact, if you look carefully at the running boards on The Voyage you can see that they are a little different from other PTC coasters because that ride's trains have some special modifications to let them go a little beyond what a PTC train can normally do.

The train and the track operate as a system, with the train's mechanics limiting how well the train can perform on the track, the track geometry making certain demands on the train, and at some point, each inflicts its will on the other. PTCs trains will inflict damage on the track, in many cases apparently substituting track damage for rider damage.

GCI's trains work more cooperatively with the track, which has major mechanical benefits, but may tame the ride a bit (there is no third-bench effect in a single car train!) . But as that technology, simple at it is, is simply not available to anybody else wanting to buy an essentially off-the-shelf train...

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

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Monday, December 10, 2007 6:14 PM
Jeff's avatar There were rumblings at IAAPA about a park operator interested in one of the GCI trains, and word is they did have a price. That price, combined with a very, very long lead time, were a deal breaker. You can get a PTC by comparison much more quickly.

Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog - Silly Nonsense

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Monday, December 10, 2007 6:21 PM

needless quotation removed -J

Proves once again, you get what you pay for!

Remember in the 80's and 90's when PTC were really all the rage and Morgans were the red headed step child. My how things change!

That was before PTC began 'refitting' all the old coaster trains with those hideous new L lap bars... uck!

The ones on the American Eagle are much better, don't hurt and they 'stay up'. It must be a Great America thing, b/c the hideous PTC L bars on Viper are specially fitted with tough shocks that prevent the bars from falling down. And that does a good job! *** Edited 12/11/2007 1:04:45 AM UTC by Jeff***

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Monday, December 10, 2007 8:33 PM

RideMan said:A GCI's trains work more cooperatively with the track, which has major mechanical benefits, but may tame the ride a bit (there is no third-bench effect in a single car train!) . But as that technology, simple at it is, is simply not available to anybody else wanting to buy an essentially off-the-shelf train...--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Theres no *Third Bench effect on a two bench train either :)*

But your right, I really don't know how the P&C style trains will act in extreme situations but I hear *COASTER* is always raved about.

Chuck

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