a possible reason for B&M coasters costing more?

Sunday, July 14, 2002 6:45 PM

while an obvious observation, i havent seen this brought up.

but could a possible reason be the size of their track? i mean, the track is so wide...especially on the stand-ups. my guess would be that the track on on millenium force was atleast 1ft shorter in width than the track on mantis.

this is only a guess of mine. it only seems obvious because the price of the steel can easily add up. but at the same time, why arent the vekoma flyers any more expensive because that track is wider as well.

any other thoughts?

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Sunday, July 14, 2002 6:52 PM
The reason their rides cost so much is because they are by far the most reliable rides on the market. They require very little maintenance and can be counted on to open on time and have a great capacity. They are the most brilliantly engineered rides in the industry and therefore B&M can charge practically whatever they want for them. Also, B&M uses high quality materials in the construction of their rides (ie they don't cut corners). You get what you pay for!

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Magnum Allan - FLCC member. My website: http://dropzone224.tripod.com

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Sunday, July 14, 2002 7:21 PM
Ugh, why would other companies cut corners either? It's not like other companies go to the scrap yard to get the metal to be melted down for their coasters...

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LocoBazooka--Sevendust, Nonpoint, Stereo Vent, Mushroomhead
Korn Tour (With no name)--Korn, Puddle of Mudd, Deadsy

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Sunday, July 14, 2002 7:30 PM
I believe that B&M designs and builds their rides to TUV standards for amusement rides. These are extremely conservative and require everything to be overbuilt, compared to what we're used to here.
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Sunday, July 14, 2002 8:01 PM

Box Track - Not Pre Fabricated....it has to be bent and folded from sheet metal not to mention welded.

Tubular Steel - Pre Fabricated, just bent, not folding required.

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Sunday, July 14, 2002 8:56 PM
My answer is everything!

Everything is done grander, large, and are "over-done" to make the company not have a bad side with injuries, etc. With a B&M, a park can't go wrong. Other comapnies i guess u could say have more of a risk to them.

Also just look at a b&m- more steel, larger and more expensive trains, wider track and supports, higher materials, etc... Just look.

Take this question to thought ... Why would you rather build a b&m over a vekoma/arrow/etc. if u had the money?

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-ANDREW-
http://insanerides.fateback.com

*** This post was edited by Andyc545 on 7/15/2002. ***

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Sunday, July 14, 2002 10:05 PM

CPgenius said:
Ugh, why would other companies cut corners either? It's not like other companies go to the scrap yard to get the metal to be melted down for their coasters...

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LocoBazooka--Sevendust, Nonpoint, Stereo Vent, Mushroomhead
Korn Tour (With no name)--Korn, Puddle of Mudd, Deadsy



No but they do use lower grade steel. A lot of times designers cut corners on minor details. The most obvious right now to me is SFNE's Superman having plastic air lines and no pressure gauges on them. The brakes worked, but Intamin cut a corner and it backfired. B&M rides are the best designed out there bar none and companies are willing to pay extra for it.

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Magnum Allan - FLCC member. My website: http://dropzone224.tripod.com

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Sunday, July 14, 2002 10:08 PM
If a coaster company is cutting corners, it's doing so for the same exact reason so many other companies in so many other industries do it...to save money. The less spent on costs means the higher the profit margain.

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James Draeger
-Proud co-founder of the Coasterbuzz street team

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Monday, July 15, 2002 6:55 AM
Even if Intamin's steel is a lower grade, which I'm hesistant to agree with, they make up for it with their track design. It's the strongest track out there with the box trusses. it can support itself without any ground supports under it, not to mention the 28 ton weight of the train on MF. I don't think that B can make this claim. Just look at the impulses and Xcelerator, they have huge amounts of unsupported track...who has the lower grade steel?

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LocoBazooka--Sevendust, Nonpoint, Stereo Vent, Mushroomhead
Korn Tour (With no name)--Korn, Puddle of Mudd, Deadsy

*** This post was edited by CPgenius on 7/15/2002. ***

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Monday, July 15, 2002 6:59 AM
Very Good Point CP Genius, And did anyone think they cost so much cause the steel weighs so much perhaps???? Also the Supports weigh alot too not to mention tha the Trains Weigh alot, and also condsidering there are only two designers which means more hours to put in on a design which equals out to more money cost per design.

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Brakerun!
The Coaster Site geared toward you!
http://www.brakerun.com

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Monday, July 15, 2002 9:56 AM

B&Ms fabrication process is much more complex than others. Like Sidewinder said, the box spine is fabricated and welded together in numerous places. Those welds are re-infornced thus raising costs. They also require about 40% more steel than most coasters out there. Their supports are also larger and more abundant that in turn costs more.

Both Intamin and B&M build to TUV specifications and they both use high quality steel. Intamin builds a wide variety of amusement attractions per year and B&M build a limited amount. Intamin is a huge company with hundreds of employees and B&M has maybe 10-20 employees. B&M's newest rides are pricey to cover all of the initial R&D costs to design and build said ride. After several years of recouping those costs, the prices lower about 15-20%. Intamin doesnt have to charge all of that extra money on their coasters because they have numerous rides to recoup that money on. They can spread thosed costs over about 10-20 rides in that year with no problem.

Also, until 2000, Giovanola fabricated ALL of B&Ms and Intamin's coasters..out of the same kind of steel. Gio still does most of their non-North American coasters. B&M fabricates their North American coasters in Ohio.

Maybe this will help clear things up a bit..

Chris

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WCUSA-The World's largest theme park is coming!
Theme parks will NEVER be the same!

*** This post was edited by Chris Godsey on 7/15/2002. ***

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Monday, July 15, 2002 10:26 AM

CPgenius said:
It's not like other companies go to the scrap yard to get the metal to be melted down for their coasters...

Actually, they are... nearly all steel produced today uses recycled materials...

Anyway... with B&M, you are paying for the name and the quality that goes with it... Would you rather have a BMW or a Yugo

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Monday, July 15, 2002 5:35 PM
I meant like some of the guys from other companies literally walk into a car scrap yard looking for the best hunks of metal to melt down...:)

You don't think that Intamin is a quality name? I think that they have proven themselves in the past 3 years that they offered as good, if not better rides that B&M.

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LocoBazooka--Sevendust, Nonpoint, Stereo Vent, Mushroomhead
Korn Tour (With no name)--Korn, Puddle of Mudd, Deadsy

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Monday, July 15, 2002 5:42 PM

ACEerCG said:
If a coaster company is cutting corners, it's doing so for the same exact reason so many other companies in so many other industries do it...to save money. The less spent on costs means the higher the profit margain.

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Of course they are. But you allow for less than your best, you cut corners - well, there are consequences. The absence of consequences can translate into higher price, higher value, and some entities out there will pay higher right up front rather than later for those unpredictable consequences.


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Monday, July 15, 2002 5:49 PM

CPgenius said:
Even if Intamin's steel is a lower grade, which I'm hesistant to agree with, they make up for it with their track design.

The specific example I read above concerning Intamin was not concerning their quality of steel. It concerned plastic hoses and the absence of pressure gauges. I mean, besides, I wouldn't expect skimping on steel quality from companies other than the El-Cheapo's out there, and I don't believe this includes Intamin. I'm not saying Intamin isn't quality, because they have some very sweet babies out there. I'll still ride them, pressure gauges or no! ;-)

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Monday, July 15, 2002 6:21 PM

As with everything on this planet... you (almost always) get what you pay for. Think about buying electronic equipment, if you want a good quality stereo you buy a brand known for quality. Sony, JVC, etc. The other brands are typically less expensive and for a reason, they use lower quality parts thus creating an inferior product with a shorter life span.

The same holds true for everything in this world. including coasters. some companies use lower quality products so they can sell more coasters to more parks. Every year is not a great year for a park so sometimes they are looking to add a coaster with a lower price tag.

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Wednesday, July 17, 2002 4:11 AM
I don't know how Intamin's track could cost less, there is a lot of welding involved. I mean a lot of welding. Look at the track next time your in the queue for an Intamin. All those cross braces welded to the track.

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The worst day at Cedar Point is better than the best day at work.

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Wednesday, July 17, 2002 5:01 AM

Intamin's track is just like a steel joist (the roof beams you see in a Wal-Mart). There is more labor to put them together, but where each piece is welded to the track is just a tack weld - maybe 10 seconds of labor. The reduced amount of steel more than makes up for the cost of labor.

I would also guess that B&M's box track is just as labor intensive.

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Wednesday, July 17, 2002 5:08 AM

B&M is obviously the quality leader in the industry. Their coasters generally cost a bit more, but they provide excellent value. The difference in price is not nearly as much as some people imagine though.

All coaster manufacturers use the same basic grade of steel. They use standard strength structural steels. There is no reason to use high strength steels in roller coaster construction since design is normally limited by fatigue on the welds, not the strength of the base metal. High strength steels are more diffucult to fabricate well and for coasters don't provide any benefit.

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Wednesday, July 17, 2002 6:27 AM
Something I have found interesting is Intamin's way of using different track constructions throughout the coaster. Varying between 2, 3 and 4 bars, with more bars requiring less supports and less bars requiring more supports. I wonder what effects this type of construction has on the cost of the coaster.

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signature withheld for no apparent reason

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