Lankster said:
Frontrider,You seem to think that having kids is a prison sentence. Last I checked, kids were allowed in parks. They don't end your freedom, or end free time. Not even close.
Lol, but it wouldn't be any fun for me if I had to spend all day in the kiddie section instead of getting 50 laps on the woodie!
For ME it would be a SERIOUS loss of freedom, much more than "marginal". I get to spend 3-4 days (or MORE) a week visiting parks and doing other hobbies. I get to travel 3-4 MONTHS a year for PLEASURE. I get to go nightclubbing till five in the morning anytime I want to without having to "clear" it with anyone. You think I could do all that with the obligations of the partner and kids thing?
The CONSTANT having to coardinate my life with someone else's - to answer to other people outside of a work situation - to have to supress someone else's free will (the kid's) would be an incredible burden for me.
If you haven't figured out by now I like to keep "responsibility" to others at the barest of minimums. By not having kids I am NOT being selfish because I can focus on my own needs without selfishly neglecting people who depend on me, since I have no dependents, get it?
Obviously, I hit a nerve in you too for you to keep responding to me. As I recall, you are the one who first responded to me, which prompted ALL of my replies back to you in order to simply clarify things you had misinterpreted. As I alluded to in my previous post, this has gone OFF TOPIC and any further replies between us should be done using the "Private Message" feature out of respect for the moderator and the other readers. (Although I SINCERELY hope there will be no more replies!)
If you want to call me pompous for valueing kids over the (marginal and temporary) loss of free time then have at it.
As USUAL you TWIST my words. I did NOT call you pompous or condescending for what you value, but for "pitying" someone who doesn't need, or want, your pity. I was just showing you how it could be turned around the same way on your kind. It's just that my kind are in the minority, so we are at a disadvantage. Try going your whole life knowing you can never really open up about yourself regarding certain issues when you meet new people in workplace situations, etc. even though THEY are the ones asking you the personal questions because you know there is a darn good chance an exchange like this will take place, or they will condescendingly tell you that "you will change your mind one day", etc. As if I am too stupid to know myself better than THEY do.
Maybe then, you would understand. But I doubt it.
It all goes back to people foolishly assuming ALL people are like they are. They can't understand how THEY could live like me so they "pity" me because they are REALLY pitying how they themselves would feel in my shoes. Thus, they are refusing to see the REAL me and acting like my own priorities are invalid for ME, which of course is very insulting.
THAT'S what I meant by "projecting their own feelings onto other people". Get it?
(I can't believe many people don't feel like I do.
We're in the minority, but that does not make our opinions any less of a valid option. A minority in a population of billions is still a large number of people.
sorry, but we have the freedom to feel like we do, just as you demand we respect how you feel.
Why have you no respect for our feelings??
WHAT? Who said I didn't respect your feelings? Of course you have the "right" to condescendingly insult people with your "pity", but that doesn't make you come across as anything less than a smug jerk. Hence my three replies to you.
You've read so much into what I said I can't begin to sort it out. You compare your life to mine?? You know nothing about my life, as do I yours. I could be an eccentric multi-millionaire with multiple nannies to care for my kids, giving me all the free time possible. Conversely, your life could be so amazing I'd jump at the chance to switch. So I don't understand most of your post in that direction.
I was refering SOLELY to the kids issue. Even if you WERE a multimillionaire and I was poor and living in a shack, I wouldn't want to trade with you if being someone's parental authority figure came with it. I'd have to take the shack. I'd rather be in prison, have cancer, or aids than have kids. At least there would be a chance of getting out of those situations and going back to the life I had before that, which is impossible once you have a kid.
And I already know based on what you said about how much happiness having kids brings you that you wouldn't want to trade with me, even if my life were "so amazing", because trading with me would mean no kids, no family. An ideal situation for me but not for you. So that's what I meant by that part you said you had a hard time understanding.
The people who give you looks of pity don't understand how you could value a little more free time over having a child.
Right, and from my point of view, I don't understand wanting kids for any reason regardless of how it affects free time, although that's part of it, but not all of it for me. Just because someone doesn't "understand" someone who is different from them, it is foolish to pity them. The "pity" implies that their way is the CORRECT way for everyone to achieve happiness, including the person being pitied, which is insulting to those who already know that there is a better path for them.
It's not that I solely value free time over having a child. There are 100 or more other reasons why I don't want kids besides that. In fact, even if having kids gave me the same amount of free time, I still wouldn't want them! As I said, I'd rather live in the gutter than have kids. I'm happier without them, most people are happier with them, and happy people don't need pity. So there is NO NEED for pity on either side.
And as I explained before it's not just "a little more free time", it's an EXPONENTIAL amount of free time. I've lived alone by choice for almost 15 years and have lived with others (without kids being involved) before that, and I wouldn't trade the TOTAL freedom I have now in my personal life for any amount of money in the world! I could just take off for weekends, or even longer depending on the situation, and not even have to tell a single living soul! That kind of freedom of mobility is PRICELESS to me, but obviously kids would take that away.
That's it. Nothing else. Apparently you pity them right back. Great. Have a nice life.
I pity no one who follows their OWN inner voice and goals and desires, since by doing so they should be applauded and not pitied, as I explained numorous times.
And by the same standard, neither should the hetero/breeder majority pity anyone who isn't like them for following THEIR own inner voice, goals, and desires.
Those two sentences sum up everything I feel about this, and hopefully will give you greater, more enlightened insight into why I find people so insulting if they "pity" me for living my OWN life on my OWN terms. Which is really IMO the best one can hope for in life - being true to oneself. *** Edited 8/10/2006 9:14:47 AM UTC by Frontrider***
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