2009 Golden Tickets

Lord Gonchar said:

mlnem4s said:
^ Ooohhhh mmmmyyyyy......though I guess that comment kind of goes along with why you are at "first base" with your Q-bot.

You don't want to see the 2nd and third base pictures, trust me. :)

Wanna try me?! lol

RGB said something about seats a few pages back, but CoasterBuzz won't let me add it...lol:

Thanks RGB. I'll add that events are different from rides because when an even happens, everyone experiences it at the same time. With rides,everyone has to take turns. SF is allowing people to not have to wait their turn.

Lord Gonchar said:

Sure, it's the same thing, but people using gold Q-bot aren't doing that. They bought something else - preferred access to the rides. People in the 'normal' line bought stand-by admission.

That seems to be where the confusion lies.

Nope, because the "something else" that they bought was the perk to be allowed by the park to cut in front of everyone. It is cutting, as I will describe below.

Think of it as the park selling two different plans to enter their park (like parks that do PPR and RAD). This is a lot like that. People accessing the rides in different ways.

If I think about it that way, it comes down to the haves and the have nots again.

Everyone waiting in stand-by has to stay in order. No one should leave the line and try to get back in that same spot or enter the line in front of others.

It also applies to everyone using the VQ line. No one should leave and try to come back to the same spot or enter the line and move ahead of others.

No one is cutting in front of anyone.

So maybe you want the parks to put new signs up that says that people in the standby lines are not allowed to cut in front of each other and people who are VQed are not allowed to cut in front of each other? Isn't that admitting that VQed people are allowed to cut in front of standby people?

tier...service

Why don't the parks just use this kind of language when describing admission prices? I'll tell you why...It would piss off customers even more than they already are.

"SIX FLAGS OFFERS NEW "TIERED SERVICES"!

Six Flags announced today that they will offer three different tiers of service to their valued customers! Tier one (only $59.99 per person) gives guests a limited experience, and only allows access to the rides and attractions when higher tiered guest's line is short enough. Tier two (Only $119.99 per person) offers guest an enhanced experience, allowing them access to two or more rides and attractions at a time,which will drastically shorten the amount of time one has to wait inline. Tier three (Only $159.99 per person) is a deluxe admission plan,and allows guests instant access to any ride at any time, bypassing both the cheapo line and the semi-cheapo line.

RCMAC said:
...I went to the Q-bot concession and asked if it was a good idea and the woman said very honestly "on a day like this? YES!"

Glad to hear that I'm not the only one who felt that way.

...Superman tower... line was incredibly long, especially with only two (of the three, is it?) of the towers in working order...

Want to bet that when people see that one of the towers wasn't operating, they raced to the hour-long Lo-Q line? Sound's to me like SF had a good rea$on for not wanting to fix that part of the tower.

...even though I paid for the thing, started to feel kind of bad. I felt like I was cutting instead of relaxing somewhere out of line....you should've heard the abuse we and the operators took from those standing in line, which at that point had grown to almost 2 hours. I thought a fist fight was gonna break out, and it was a little scary. And part of me wanted to say "see ya, suckers", but the other part of me realized that something about it just didn't seem fair, and I felt sorry for the"have-nots". I also felt very, very sorry for the operators.

But does SF care at the negative experience that they are offering the majority of their guests? No, because it makes them more money. This is the largest reason that flashpass sucks. It's a conflict of interest.

Jeff said:

LostKause said:
I do have a problem with, among other things, some parks using flashpass as a crutch for their lousy operations.

Your biggest problem is that you keep connecting these two things, and I don't believe there is a connection. That they offer paid queuing has nothing to do with the efficiency of their operations. If they're slow loading people, they'll be slow loading people whether they're standing in the normal line or coming up the exit. The incentive for these systems is not to compensate for anything, it's to make money. There's no cause and effect, as you suggest.

I didn't meant to sound accusatory; that the park has lousy operations on purpose. I'm saying that their is less incentive for them to try to improve. When people see the long lines due to crappy operations and closed rides, I have no doubt that some of them will race to get inline for the Q-Bot counter. They make more money from Q-Bot when they offer crappy operations. How can that be rebutted?

And if people run to the Q-Bot counter when they notice crappy operations and lines, then I bet SF as taken notice that more money is to be made when they don't try.

Carrie M. said:
first class/preferred security line...

You still get your ticket. You still get to go through security.You still get to board the plane. But you have to wait longer while those who paid more go first.

Q-bot is the same thing. You still get to ride. But you have to wait longer while those who paid more go first.

Waiting longer in one line at the airport would take you an extra 10 minutes, maybe? Waiting longer at the theme parks who offers this so-called service could waste a few hours or more throughout the entire day. It's not the same. Any time I go to an airport, I get right on anyways, and I never get first class, so I don't relate.

...And I don't think that VQ will be the norm with the negativity that it receives on busy days. You seem to just want Lo-Q to figure out a better way to pull the wool over park guest's eyes.

Carrie M. said:
No one actually misses anything due to the qbots, either. They just have to wait longer in order to experience the same thing.

Which means that they get less for their money throughout the entire day, which means that they miss something.

Carrie M. said:

Haven't we established that qbot is still waiting for the same time one would have ridden otherwise? They just wait somewhere other than in line?

Nope, because if they are allowed to ride two rides at once, the botted ride is cutting. SF only has a certain amount of overall ride capacity per day. Most botters are waiting in more than one line,which artificially inflates how many people are waiting in the lines in the first place, and has the same effect on the standby line as that many people cutting all day instead.

Lord Gonchar said:

You don't want to see the 2nd and third base pictures, trust me. :)

Reminds me of the thread about the lady who was sexually attracted to the Knoebles flat ride. :)

Edit - line breaks, spelling, and quote fixings. :)

LostKause said:
Nope, because the "something else" that they bought was the perk to be allowed by the park to cut in front of everyone. It is cutting, as I will describe below.

Okee dokee then. :)

If I think about it that way, it comes down to the haves and the have nots again.

Then everything in life is that. People who spend more get better things in general. That's how life works.

So maybe you want the parks to put new signs up that says that people in the standby lines are not allowed to cut in front of each other and people who are VQed are not allowed to cut in front of each other? Isn't that admitting that VQed people are allowed to cut in front of standby people?

No need to put new signs up. I'm arguing that the current rules work in that way. I can't be cutting in line in front of you. I bought my way into a totally different line. We're using two different lines to access one attraction. (oooohhh, I just blew yer mind ;) )

Why don't the parks just use this kind of language when describing admission prices?

I don't know. Seems like a harder upsell worded that way, I suppose.

I'll tell you why...

Oh, ok. Nevermind then.

It would piss off customers even more than they already are.

Your wildly overestimating the outrage over this...and underestimating the increased happiness (and revenue) of those that like VQ.

Want to bet that when people see that one of the towers wasn't operating, they raced to the hour-long Lo-Q line? Sound's to me like SF had a good rea$on for not wanting to fix that part of the tower.

This is the largest reason that flashpass sucks. It's a conflict of interest.

Sounds a little 'conspiracy theory' to me.

They make more money from Q-Bot when they offer crappy operations. How can that be rebutted?

In the idea that they'd be losing more pissing off way more people by running poorly than they're making in revenue by selling q-bots.

You have ideas. But they're just like ideas on LSD. The perception and dimensions and spatial relationships are all distorted.

You're on a bad trip, man! ;)

...And I don't think that VQ will be the norm with the negativity that it receives on busy days.

See! There's that alternate reality creeping in again. Come back, man! Come back!

SF only has a certain amount of overall ride capacity per day.

And VQ'ers are buying those available seats while non-VQ'ers opt for 'general admission' - it really doesn't have to be any more complicated than that.

Since I don't feel like working my way through a maze of multi-quoting, I'll paraphrase: LK asked why parks don't advertise tiered admission plans. Gonch said he didn't know, might be a harder upsell worded that way.

Why should it be a difficult sale? We're told it's no different than first class seating on an airline, or box seats and luxury suites at a ballgame. Everybody who's ever flown or been at a game knows they exist and have few issues with it . Why not advertise a "first class park experience" or an "exclusive luxury admission package?" If there's nothing unfair or underhanded about it, why not publicize it?

Simplicity factor.

I also think a simple across-the-board admission with a "it's just another X amount of dollars for preferred access" is an easier sell than combining the two costs and presenting it.

Eh, that's BS. Park websites already have multi-colored calendars showing a myriad of operating hours. They also have tabs devoted to various admission prices, one day, two day, twilight, junior, senior... what's the big deal about adding two more paragraphs? (Unless you want to start adding Twilight Qbots and senior Qbots, each at their own price point.)

I know for a fact that sports teams also have a similar page on their websites outlining all their admission plans, complete with multi-colored pictures of the arena or stadium showing where all the different ticket levels sit. If parks want their pay for access systems to be widely accepted, it's only fitting they should treat it like part of their typical admission plan.

...Or the "pulling wool over eyes" factor. If people don't know that they are getting screwed, they will remain happy gue$ts.

I'm really happy that we are keeping this civil. I just wish that we could move forward with discussing improving the system instead of going around in circles. (Noticed that I said "we", which includes me.")

edit - Forgot to add one of these ")" at the end.

Ok, then. They should do it.

I'm not sure what answer you're looking for. I liken it to something like HW selling folks on 'free' drinks or Disney trying to claim admission to their park is $75. The way you word things to sell them matters.

But sure, sell it as tiered entry. That's fine. Does it shut up the haters who think they're being cheated? Then even better. Where do I sign?

RatherGoodBear said:
We're told it's no different than first class seating on an airline, or box seats and luxury suites at a ballgame. Everybody who's ever flown or been at a game knows they exist and have few issues with it .

This made me smile. You say that as if you were taught that in some kind of authoritative way.

Why not advertise a "first class park experience" or an "exclusive luxury admission package?" If there's nothing unfair or underhanded about it, why not publicize it?

That's what's so funny to me. They already do sell something like that in just that way. It's called the VIP experience. And yet, no one seems to have an issue with that concept. In fact, I think LK said he likes it and would prefer that program get expanded in lieu of expanding QBot.

Yep. Make it for the people who have enough money that they feel entitled to not have to wait their turn, which would be probably be about 20 or 50 people per day, and leave the rest out of the whole "line cutting" scam. Gonch can save up for his turn to purchase the exclusive experience, and me and many others can get our fair waiting time back. Everyone wins! :)

Or offer Exclusive ride time for these 20 or 50 people. They get to ride more and we get to ride more too!

Make it so expensive, the lines can go back to pretty much normal.

There's a difference between waiting longer and thinking you're waiting longer. And a big difference between waiting 2% longer and 50% longer.

Still wish we'd move past the if, it's not if. The system is here. Suggesting to change it to what is currently VIP and calling that a discussion on how to improve it is a bit of a stretch.

I'm not sure there's a whole lot to improve beyond the awkward implementation on older rides (cars roped off, exit ramp entry). The newer rides (ones built with VQ in mind) handle it quite well with two distinct lines - just like Disney - which makes it clearer to all that there's two separate lines for any given attraction.

Ok I am sick of you people bashing Six Flags and the Q-bot and Flashpass system.... Its a way for the park to make more money by taking it from impatient people who dont want to stand in line..... NOT THAT MANY PEOPLE EVEN USE THEM.... unless you're stupid and go on a busy day... The way Disney and such have it makes no sense because everyone just gets the stupid passes for anything that has a line.... the regular line doesnt move and the passes are essentailly stupid anyway... Also its not like the people using flashpasses go up and steal seats from the exit... they go up to the main entrance just like everybody else... The current system actually makes a lot of sense to me at the larger parks. And thank goodness magic mountain makes you pay extra for rides such as X2, deja vu, and terminator because these are rides with god aweful capacity... it makes sense people.... SF charges very cheap admission fees to their park plus their season passes work at all of the parks unlike cedar fair.... Id rather go in for free then spend 80 bucks at disney for a few rides (although the experience is fantastic)... Honestly just be quiet regarding the system... theres nothing really wrong with it... wait in line people... just do it

Wow. That makes me want to hate Flash Pass. :)

I think I'm done posting on this website.... you people obviously know absolutly nothing about how the amusement park industry is run and how money needs to come in with the current economy... as someone who works within the industry....i have absolutly had it with the way you treat people. ... I work for Cedar Fair (currently based out of CGA DP prior to that, My dad works for Six Flags (based out of Texas), and my GF works at Disneyland in CA....i know how it works... stop being so ignorant!

HAHAHAHAHA!

That broke the tension!

Here I am "burning the midnight oil", and I have an idea to admit that I see all points on the other side of the argument. I understand that Gonch and others tried flashpass, and really liked it. I know it makes money for the parks, and SF may not have survived without it. I still feel that it is a pretty crummy way for them to make money. I still feel that it messes up capacity. I don't so easily accept that different tiered amusement park experiences are the exciting future.

But one thing I think we can all agree on...

Jimmy Boy probably used the word "stupid" more times than any of us in a single paragraph, even counting the "people are stupid" threads. ;)

and... he... holds... the record... for the.... number of.... ellipses used... as well.

Jimmy Boy said:

My dad works for Six Flags (based out of Texas), and my GF works at Disneyland in CA....i know how it works... stop being so ignorant!

Come on JB, everyone on this site either has worked at parks, visited parks, or studied parks most of their lives. Your not special. Not to mention everything you have written proves that you don't know how it works.

Why do Q-Bots create such madness?

Jimmy Boy said:
I work for Cedar Fair (currently based out of CGA DP prior to that, My dad works for Six Flags (based out of Texas), and my GF works at Disneyland in CA....i know how it works... stop being so ignorant!

Six Flags is not based out of Texas. SF Inc. which is headquarted in New York City doesn't even own the Texas park.

Six Flags is not based out of Texas. SF Inc. which is headquarted in New York City doesn't even own the Texas park.

Six Flags ownes 2 parks in texas.... my dad is a repair mechanic....

My Bad, Fiesta slipped my mind. They own Fiesta, they do not own SFOT. So I don't have to repeat myself, look at my post on March 3, 2009

http://coasterbuzz.com/Forums/Thread/55344.aspx