Hulk - who's actually doing the track

James Whitmore

Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:17 PM
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Assuming that Led Zeppelin/Time Machine reopens in Vietnam next year, Hulk will be the first B&M to be scrapped. Correct me if I'm wrong.


jameswhitmore.net

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slithernoggin

Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:55 PM
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Vater said:

The Bureau of Satin Jackets & Gravy Buffets.

Brilliant!


Life is something that happens when you can't get to sleep.
--Fran Lebowitz

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bunky666

Friday, November 6, 2015 3:13 AM

New track, new trains, layout changes? Yeah, I'd say new credit. Of course, I gave up my gravy privileges, so I could be wrong. Let me check with a laminated card carrying member, and I'm sure they'd be happy to assert their authori-tay.


"Look at us spinning out in the madness of a roller coaster" - Dave Matthews Band

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kpjb

Friday, November 6, 2015 3:21 AM
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I'd lean toward new credit also. It seems that it'd be a new ride experience.


Hi

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Jeff

Friday, November 6, 2015 12:01 PM
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Because of the new trains, I'm likely to add a new entry in the database here. The intent is that the ride will be different enough that it needs a new set of rating data. I did that with Rougarou.


Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog

+2

matt.

Friday, November 6, 2015 1:41 PM
matt.'s avatar

So the bigger mystery, to me, is.....what's the marketing angle?

Hulk is one of the more iconic, visible, popular rides in Central Florida. I think the ride itself is only ok but it certainly is visually stunning, and I've had many, many non-enthusiasts bring it up with me as one of their favorite rides.

So you tear the ride down, upgrade the trains, upgrade the theming overlay, and possibly do changes to the layout....that seems like a huge chunk of change for something I'm not sure is immediately marketable at first blush. I just feel like there has to be some sort of major piece of the puzzle we're still missing. If it was *just* a train upgrade or *just* a theming upgrade I would get it, but wholesale ripping out the track seems to indicate something else is afoot, I just can't imagine what it is.

Last edited by matt., Friday, November 6, 2015 1:42 PM
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kevin38

Friday, November 6, 2015 2:15 PM

matt. said:

So the bigger mystery, to me, is.....what's the marketing angle?

Hulk is one of the more iconic, visible, popular rides in Central Florida. I think the ride itself is only ok but it certainly is visually stunning, and I've had many, many non-enthusiasts bring it up with me as one of their favorite rides.

So you tear the ride down, upgrade the trains, upgrade the theming overlay, and possibly do changes to the layout....that seems like a huge chunk of change for something I'm not sure is immediately marketable at first blush. I just feel like there has to be some sort of major piece of the puzzle we're still missing. If it was *just* a train upgrade or *just* a theming upgrade I would get it, but wholesale ripping out the track seems to indicate something else is afoot, I just can't imagine what it is.

I think it has everything to do with who owns the IP.They may have permission for refurb w upgrades But not for new ride The only stuff not torn down now is Que and launch tunnel .and it has been announced it will have new launch mechanism . Marvel/Disney is making serious bank off movies and would love an east coast Disney park presence .But they would have to buy those rights back from Universal .How much can you not replace and still be called a refurb .It is very loose in interpretation .

From a marketing perspective it would be better to call it a new ride .

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Jeff

Friday, November 6, 2015 2:17 PM
Jeff's avatar

Please don't quote the previous post. It's redundant.

Whether or not there is a marketing angle may be unimportant if they simply felt that the ride had reached a point where it was mechanically in need of replacement. We don't really know.


Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog

+1

maXairMike

Friday, November 6, 2015 3:08 PM

kevin38 said:

I think it has everything to do with who owns the IP.They may have permission for refurb w upgrades But not for new ride The only stuff not torn down now is Que and launch tunnel .and it has been announced it will have new launch mechanism . Marvel/Disney is making serious bank off movies and would love an east coast Disney park presence .But they would have to buy those rights back from Universal .How much can you not replace and still be called a refurb .It is very loose in interpretation .

From a marketing perspective it would be better to call it a new ride .

Oy vey, not this again.

They are perfectly within their contract rights to build a new Marvel attraction, and Marvel can't say no just because. In fact, I expect there to be an Avengers attraction on the horizon.


Original BlueStreak64

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RCMAC

Saturday, November 7, 2015 2:54 AM

From the sign on the wall surrounding construction:

"The Incredible Hulk Returns 2016"

There. There's your marketing angle.

+5

Touchdown

Saturday, November 7, 2015 12:27 PM

I think they know what they are doing, after all they already did this when they completely reanimated Spider-Man a few years ago. That ride continues to be extremely popular, and at times has a longer line then the Potter ride.


2022 Trips: WDW, Sea World San Diego & Orlando, CP, KI, BGW, Bay Beach, Canobie Lake, Universal Orlando

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Jeff

Saturday, November 7, 2015 9:29 PM
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Queue length independent of capacity is not a measurement of popularity.


Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog

+3

Touchdown

Saturday, November 7, 2015 10:20 PM

Except I'm pretty sure they have similar capacities. Spidy has larger ride vehicles (8 vs 4 people) but doesn't launch continuously. It comes down to whether you think 1 scoop is launched in the same time 2 and flying benches take flight and I think that's about the right timing.

Last edited by Touchdown, Saturday, November 7, 2015 10:22 PM

2022 Trips: WDW, Sea World San Diego & Orlando, CP, KI, BGW, Bay Beach, Canobie Lake, Universal Orlando

+1

matt.

Monday, November 9, 2015 2:47 PM
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Jeff said:

Whether or not there is a marketing angle may be unimportant if they simply felt that the ride had reached a point where it was mechanically in need of replacement. We don't really know.

This is very much true, and might possibly be the most obvious answer.

However, in the spirit of overthinking things, Hulk opened in 1999. That's three years after Montu and six years after Kumba - both B&Ms that have regularly run 2 to 3 trains in a similar Floridian climates. And those haven't needed extensive track replacement. I know that's still not a perfect apples to apples comparison but it's still something that makes me go hmmmmmmmm.

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Jeff

Monday, November 9, 2015 3:09 PM
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I doubt those rides have endured the same service hours. It seems like I've seen an awful lot of single-train operation and short hours in Tampa. Perhaps those rides aren't far behind... :)


Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog

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Fun

Monday, November 9, 2015 3:11 PM
Fun's avatar

The extent of the work rules out this being entirely based on normal wear and tear. There are so many less expensive ways to repair and replace track than to tear down the whole thing. There is going to be a significant change to the ride profile, and I suspect that the need to create a new marquee roller coaster experience is what is driving this project- not end of service life.

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rollergator

Monday, November 9, 2015 3:43 PM
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Jeff said:

I doubt those rides have endured the same service hours. It seems like I've seen an awful lot of single-train operation and short hours in Tampa.

I'll always remember being told that running one train empty on Gwazi meant they were saving on wear-and-tear, since only occupied trains were counted as "operational." Certainly, that line of logic helps to explain the condition of the ride those last few years.


You still have Zoidberg.... You ALL have Zoidberg! (V) (;,,;) (V)

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maXairMike

Sunday, November 15, 2015 1:42 PM

They're beefing up the footers in the cobra roll/loop area, likely in prep for a larger spine and/or for the heavier trains with on-board audio.


Original BlueStreak64

+1

Joshua Bott

Sunday, November 15, 2015 5:10 PM

I had the thought that perhaps they might be changing the style of coaster they are using. I don't know much about coaster engineering and design but wouldn't a different style of coaster require different footers (i.e. flying or winged)? This would explain the complete tear-down and reinforcement of the footers, and it would give Universal the cachet of saying they had something cutting-edge and new that everyone would want to ride when they were done.

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Shawn Meyer

Sunday, November 15, 2015 8:22 PM
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^ I like to think that they're trying to do what Cedar Point did with Rougarou, but make it better. I also feel like maybe they're trying to work off of what they did with Thunderbird! Put two and two together? The first launching floorless roller-coaster!

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Jeff

Sunday, November 15, 2015 11:46 PM
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I am reasonably certain that the new ride will have different restraints. I had heard they even experimented by bolting a non-OTSR seat to one of the old trains.


Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog

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maXairMike

Tuesday, November 17, 2015 3:31 PM

So what looked like additions to footers were actually concrete saws. It was easy to miss the gaps around the teeth at the bottom of the saws. With how they're positioned (with a good gap around the outside edges), it looks like they'll be coring out the bolts and re-pouring the middles. I'm surprised that's something they'd do, but I suppose as long as the concrete cures correctly it would be fine. If they weren't planning to reuse them they'd just be ripping them out like they did with some in the back half.


Original BlueStreak64

+1

Jeff

Monday, December 21, 2015 2:27 PM
Jeff's avatar

Jeff said:

Whether or not there is a marketing angle may be unimportant if they simply felt that the ride had reached a point where it was mechanically in need of replacement. We don't really know.

Quoting myself is weird, I know, but I have it on good authority that this was very much an issue of having an end of service life. Apparently track repairs were pretty much a daily occurrence. It sounds like no other B&M ride has even come close to logging the same number of service hours. That's 16 years with no significant down time. Compare that to a ride like Raptor, which has maybe 170 operating days per year, and opening in 1994, still hasn't crossed the 10 year milestone. It does make you wonder about the condition of the ride in another 10 years. Also makes you think about the Busch Tampa rides, though they aren't run nearly as hard as Hulk was.


Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog

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maXairMike

Monday, December 21, 2015 4:57 PM

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Hulk had run twice as many cycles as Kumba, despite the age difference. The difference in the intervals for both rides is likely night and day, with Hulk always running at least 2 trains (but usually always 3) where Kumba seems to run with 1, maybe 2 much more often. Then add in how fast the crews at Hulk send trains out vs. Kumba. I'd be curious to know the cycle comparison to each of the Dragons as well, since one train op on each side happens often enough.


Original BlueStreak64

+1

Ben.gifford1

Monday, December 21, 2015 10:34 PM
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For Dragons, 1 train goal was 15 dispatches an hour, 2 was 30 dispatches, and 3 was 45. There were a lot of factors that went into if we hit the mark or not, but generally the crew could be within 2-3 dispatches no sweat as long as nothing went wrong.

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kevin38

Monday, December 21, 2015 11:46 PM

So an average of 300 dispatches per day x an almost 6000 open days is 1.8 million dispatches.Wow

I wonder if they keep up with daily total riders .Even if all trains not full they have to be close to 50 million individual rides ?

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Shawn Meyer

Sunday, December 27, 2015 2:30 PM
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Anything new on the development of the Hulk?

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delan

Sunday, December 27, 2015 3:19 PM
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Last thing I heard was that there was track sighting in the ohio plant. Methinks its only a matter of time before we start seeing cranes to erect the new track.

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ShaneDenmark

Sunday, December 27, 2015 4:32 PM

Will they ship track from Ohio with salt on the road? Or do they usually ship whenever, not worrying about road salt? Obviously snow or rain aren't issues...


But then again, what do I know?

+1

Jeff

Sunday, December 27, 2015 6:16 PM
Jeff's avatar

What difference does it make? You think they can just let stuff start piling up all winter?


Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog

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RCMAC

Sunday, December 27, 2015 6:30 PM

So far we haven't needed any salt on the road here in Ohio. Maybe a little bit of brine, but it's all washed away.

+3

Go Intamin

Sunday, December 27, 2015 9:31 PM

^ yeah, it's been mostly warm here. In fact, I can picture them shipping out before the effects of El Niño go away.

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ShaneDenmark

Sunday, December 27, 2015 11:56 PM

Jeff said:
What difference does it make? You think they can just let stuff start piling up all winter?

I know you've been in FL for a little while now and forgotten the effects road salt has on bare metal... Same thing happened to my father in-law when he moved south. Yeah I know the pieces are painted but I think I remember seeing the ends where the track butts together is usually bare.

True, it has been really warm so far. But we all know that can change any day.


But then again, what do I know?

+1

bigboy

Monday, December 28, 2015 12:19 AM

If the steel is so fragile that it would be compromised by one ride over salted roads, it probably won't hold up as long as the track that was just demolished.


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Jeff

Monday, December 28, 2015 1:25 AM
Jeff's avatar

It isn't bare metal, it's painted, all sides. The ends use only the primer since there's no point spending money on paint no one will ever see. That stuff was rolling up I-75 all winter in 2013.


Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog

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matt.

Monday, December 28, 2015 1:22 PM
matt.'s avatar

Yeah, some exposure to road salt or brine for a few hours isn't going to be much compared to the daily beating of having a huge greasy multi-ton coaster trains beating the steel up every 2 minutes. In the Florida sun.

And if it did, just put a tarp on it.

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jkpark

Monday, December 28, 2015 1:35 PM
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Can't help but laugh what the conversation has turned into here. Can you imagine your average park guest waiting in line and thinking: "I hope all the new track pieces were protected from the road grime during delivery!"

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ShaneDenmark

Monday, December 28, 2015 2:48 PM

Fair enough.


But then again, what do I know?

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a_hoffman50

Monday, December 28, 2015 6:05 PM
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Salt can't be washed off... nope... can't happen... Or maybe they could put some sort of protective barrier, like a tarp or wrap or something... hmm. ;)

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CoffinBoy

Monday, December 28, 2015 11:45 PM

ShaneDenmark said:

I know you've been in FL for a little while now and forgotten the effects road salt has on bare metal... Same thing happened to my father in-law when he moved south. Yeah I know the pieces are painted but I think I remember seeing the ends where the track butts together is usually bare.

True, it has been really warm so far. But we all know that can change any day.

The ends of the rails actually have plates bolted on to protect them during shipment. I remember seeing them on Gatekeeper track on the truck and sitting in the lot at CP.

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Last edited by CoffinBoy, Tuesday, December 29, 2015 12:00 AM

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