Trains on New England's Superman collide
Posted
According to WWLP, Six Flags New England's Superman: Ride of Steel suffered a minor collision of two trains that caused up to eight injuries.
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I highly doubt that MF will be effected by this accident, but the other S:ROS will. The S:ROS coasters are way too hot when they come into the final brake run. There are no permanantly set brakes to slow it down, except one on the down side of the last bunny hop. If the retractables are not in place, which is what I'm thinking happened, the train will fly into the station at a fantastic speed. MF has the long set of permantly set brakes uptrack of it's retractables which slow the train down enough where if the stopping brakes failed the collision would have far less force than that in Agawam.
Hoping everyone comes out of this accident OK,
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Scott W. Short
scott@midwestcoastercentral.com
http://www.midwestcoastercentral.com
Hoping everyone comes out of this accident OK,
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Scott W. Short
scott@midwestcoastercentral.com
http://www.midwestcoastercentral.com
Somehow I see the last bunny hop being removed on all the S:ROS rides in favor of some non-retractable brakes.
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Scott W. Short
scott@midwestcoastercentral.com
http://www.midwestcoastercentral.com
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Scott W. Short
scott@midwestcoastercentral.com
http://www.midwestcoastercentral.com
Kingbob: you say "There's gotta be a way to fight back. Now, S:ROS will be shutdown for a while because the 204 people who were on one train all broke at least 14 bones from bumping the other train at about 15 MPH."
(I'm assuming that the "204" was a typo for "24")
Are you complaining that the coaster will be down for a while? Personally, I would worry if it would not be. I mean the injuries appear to all be "minor", but any injury (aside from a bumped knee, elbow, etc gotten from the motion of the ride) is too much.
If this was a design flaw or a mechanical failure, yes, I believe that this ride should be shut down until the flaw is corrected. If it was operator error, yes, I believe it should be shut down until the operators all receive re-training (and possibly until a new fail safe can be installed).
Bottom line, if it was either of these, then the problem needs to be corrected before this coaster can again run safely.
As for Mr.Markey and his proposed legislation, I believe that this is a separate incident. We are talking about a possible mechanical defect here... we are not asking if the ride is too "intense" or pulls too many G's or is too rough.
We are not talking about a panic "knee jerk" reaction here... we are talking about a possible design flaw that could lead to disasterous results (the incident as happened was minor compared to what could have occured).
As someone said, the ride will be down for at least some time until the trains are repaired or replaced. If the trains would have been runable (or if this would have only been a "near miss" as someone said), I would be more concerned is SFNE (or any park where this may have occured) would have taken the cavalier attitude of "Whew, that was close... NEXT!" instead of shutting the ride down in order to investigate how the "incident" occured and how similar accidents may be avoided in the future.
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"I wasn't always this cynical, but then I started kindergarden..."
(I'm assuming that the "204" was a typo for "24")
Are you complaining that the coaster will be down for a while? Personally, I would worry if it would not be. I mean the injuries appear to all be "minor", but any injury (aside from a bumped knee, elbow, etc gotten from the motion of the ride) is too much.
If this was a design flaw or a mechanical failure, yes, I believe that this ride should be shut down until the flaw is corrected. If it was operator error, yes, I believe it should be shut down until the operators all receive re-training (and possibly until a new fail safe can be installed).
Bottom line, if it was either of these, then the problem needs to be corrected before this coaster can again run safely.
As for Mr.Markey and his proposed legislation, I believe that this is a separate incident. We are talking about a possible mechanical defect here... we are not asking if the ride is too "intense" or pulls too many G's or is too rough.
We are not talking about a panic "knee jerk" reaction here... we are talking about a possible design flaw that could lead to disasterous results (the incident as happened was minor compared to what could have occured).
As someone said, the ride will be down for at least some time until the trains are repaired or replaced. If the trains would have been runable (or if this would have only been a "near miss" as someone said), I would be more concerned is SFNE (or any park where this may have occured) would have taken the cavalier attitude of "Whew, that was close... NEXT!" instead of shutting the ride down in order to investigate how the "incident" occured and how similar accidents may be avoided in the future.
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"I wasn't always this cynical, but then I started kindergarden..."
SFNE is my home park, and I rode SRoS 3 times the day before this collision. Many of you know a lot about the mechanics and runnings of a coaster, and I don't profess to knowing anything about that sort of thing. But tell me if this sounds strange...I've gone to SFNE 6 times this year, and have gone on SRoS roughly 2 or 3 times each visit. Standing in line the day before this happened, my friend and I noticed that the train was stopping much closer to the loading area than it had been any of our other previous visits. When you're standing in line, you don't have too much to do besides watch the coaster and I could be wrong, but I don't think it was stopping where it should have been. Does this sound odd to anyone? As I said, I don't know anything about the braking systems of coasters so I was wondering what you guys thought.
First of all, on the braking, since someone asked...
The magnetic brakes bring the train to nearly a full stop, but it is the advancing wheel at the downtrack end of the brake run that stops and parks the train. Do these coasters even have brakes in the station? Or do they just have the advancing wheels like the B&M coasters? (Millennium Force has no brakes in the stations).
Second, on the sensor failure...
If a sensor failed in the station and indicated station clear, then the programming seriously needs to be looked at. There should be a 'station clear' switch on the lift hill triggered by the last car, and the station should not be marked clear until that switch is tripped, and it isn't even in the station. But that shouldn't be enough...there is a parking switch in the station, and if the train had not left yet, that switch should have been indicating 'train present'. It would be trivial for the program to check all the various switches before indicating 'station clear'. If it was a single point failure, then the programming is incorrect.
Sunday night I was noticing that Cedar Point's Wildcat has recently been equipped with optical switches on all of its brake runs: a secondary means of signalling which can tell if there is any obstruction at all (i.e. a train) in the actual brake run. I wonder if this incident will have more rides revisiting the use of those optical sensor systems that everybody has reason to hate. Perhaps we're bumping into the limits of what proximity switches can safely handle.....
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
The magnetic brakes bring the train to nearly a full stop, but it is the advancing wheel at the downtrack end of the brake run that stops and parks the train. Do these coasters even have brakes in the station? Or do they just have the advancing wheels like the B&M coasters? (Millennium Force has no brakes in the stations).
Second, on the sensor failure...
If a sensor failed in the station and indicated station clear, then the programming seriously needs to be looked at. There should be a 'station clear' switch on the lift hill triggered by the last car, and the station should not be marked clear until that switch is tripped, and it isn't even in the station. But that shouldn't be enough...there is a parking switch in the station, and if the train had not left yet, that switch should have been indicating 'train present'. It would be trivial for the program to check all the various switches before indicating 'station clear'. If it was a single point failure, then the programming is incorrect.
Sunday night I was noticing that Cedar Point's Wildcat has recently been equipped with optical switches on all of its brake runs: a secondary means of signalling which can tell if there is any obstruction at all (i.e. a train) in the actual brake run. I wonder if this incident will have more rides revisiting the use of those optical sensor systems that everybody has reason to hate. Perhaps we're bumping into the limits of what proximity switches can safely handle.....
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
Well, I kinda have to blame the ride ops because most of them working at sfne are slavakian (dead serious, if you go to the park). They are nice people, however I am not sure if they know how to communicate well in handling the rides.
I also have a question, the magnetic brakes seem to pop up whenever a train enters the brake run before the station and I would think that placing them there stationary would be alot safer. I hope that they will not be adding any more brakes throughout the lay out.
I also have a question, the magnetic brakes seem to pop up whenever a train enters the brake run before the station and I would think that placing them there stationary would be alot safer. I hope that they will not be adding any more brakes throughout the lay out.
BB: I share your frustration in the way people treat accidents. Younger members need to realize that there are always two basic issues in these cases:
The first is that injuries occur. Regardless of the reason, these are never a good thing and should be addressed compassionately.
The second is the media treatment of the story, which understandably we all take issue with. The coverage of this event was probably the worst I've seen yet this year (so much so it prompted me to write an editorial about it). Before any clear facts could be reported, the number of injuries reported grew and grew, and I even saw a report of a death.
I should hope that people stop and realize the difference, and furthermore avoid ridiculous and moronic statements like "Markey is paying off TV stations." Get a life and an education. That just shows how stupid and informed you are.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
"From the global village... in the age of communication!"
The first is that injuries occur. Regardless of the reason, these are never a good thing and should be addressed compassionately.
The second is the media treatment of the story, which understandably we all take issue with. The coverage of this event was probably the worst I've seen yet this year (so much so it prompted me to write an editorial about it). Before any clear facts could be reported, the number of injuries reported grew and grew, and I even saw a report of a death.
I should hope that people stop and realize the difference, and furthermore avoid ridiculous and moronic statements like "Markey is paying off TV stations." Get a life and an education. That just shows how stupid and informed you are.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
"From the global village... in the age of communication!"
From what I've read on CNN.com and seen on TV, it was human error and I can't see them putting extra brakes on the ride. The cause of the accident doesn't seem to be because the ride came in too fast at the station. It seems to be more so that the employee operating the ride failed to dispatch the first train before the second train entered the station. To me, from what I see, it doesn't seem like it has a whole lot to do with the ride itself.
Why do people think the media is blowing this out of proportion. Amusement park's say they are safe and all these accidents have happend so far. The media reports on many things like plane crash's #'s(death on plane) that change during the day. It happens all the time in reporting that facts are changed from morning edition to late edition.
Everyone makes the press out to be flawless, how about changing the focus too why so many accidents this year with none of them(from what I remember)
rider related they all have been park's fault or rides so far this year.
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Army rangers lead the way
*** This post was edited by supermandl on 8/7/2001. ***
Everyone makes the press out to be flawless, how about changing the focus too why so many accidents this year with none of them(from what I remember)
rider related they all have been park's fault or rides so far this year.
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Army rangers lead the way
*** This post was edited by supermandl on 8/7/2001. ***
If your gonna report the news of a coaster fault like this then report it responsibly! The press said there was a death for crying out loud and reported facts that were just not true..No one is saying to not make a big deal out of this, because yes frankly it is big news but if your going to report it then do it with some fact..Speculation reporting is not good for anyone!
No one appreciates reporting a story by the seat of your pants and hear say! *** This post was edited by Jeffrey Spartan on 8/7/2001. ***
No one appreciates reporting a story by the seat of your pants and hear say! *** This post was edited by Jeffrey Spartan on 8/7/2001. ***
Just have a small question or Jeff. I agree with you that he is not paying off the stations to cover this but in a direct way he has caused them to watch for these kinds of things with his proposed legislation. It basically gave the press a chance to watch parks and point out everything that goes wrong to possibly show things. Not to say that they should not because it does need to be reported, but I do not think the press has the right to twist the facts around. They say 16 people hurt, then 22. CNN says someone is almost critical but the local coverage says nothing about it.
The fact is it needs to be reported to someone but the press does not need to do the reporting. It is up to the parks to do it and the only thing I think Markey should be allowed to pass is that parks report things when it happens across the country. That is all I think he should pass. The rest is dumb. But Jeff, has coverage not picked up a lot since he wanted to introduce this legislation?
The fact is it needs to be reported to someone but the press does not need to do the reporting. It is up to the parks to do it and the only thing I think Markey should be allowed to pass is that parks report things when it happens across the country. That is all I think he should pass. The rest is dumb. But Jeff, has coverage not picked up a lot since he wanted to introduce this legislation?
It could have been a lot worse. Imagine if the train were stuck in the brake run and the other one slammed into it at full speed.I recall an incident on roar at SFA in which we were held for about 15 minutes on the brake run because the other train failed to clear the station after being dispatched.This incident occured on opening day 1999.Now imagine if we had been stuck on the brake run and the other train were on the course,there would have been no way to stop the train and there still would have been a collision.
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