The next big thing...

Wow, you guys really hate Psyclone that much? I really enjoyed that coaster. I'm sorry, but I can't celebrate the destruction of a perfectly good, classic coaster, even if the world does hate it.

Maybe I'm expecting too much from amusement parks now. I want to see coasters go higher and faster, but this is a period for normal, more traditional coasters I think.

If Dick doesn't like wood someone might want to tell him to go ride Eltoro. IMO I hope we see alot more Int. woodies they give a new meaning to woodeis that aren't maitenance nightmares and deliver a fantastic ride. Amount of track replaced after first year 0 and how much was replaced on Voyage?

---

wahoo skipper said:
The problem with Dick Kinzel is that he doesn't mind spending $15-$20 million on a brand new coaster but then he never wants to spend another dime on it.

---

Mean Streak was built in 1991. A lot changes in 16 years. Renegade is proof of that.

I mean how many wooden coasters has CF actually built? It's a small handful, right? And most many years ago, that's why what's happening up at VF is such a big deal. *** Edited 2/14/2007 8:58:13 PM UTC by matt.***

Almost all the wood coasters in CF were their when CF bought out the park they were in.

---

Ajrides said:
If Dick doesn't like wood someone might want to tell him to go ride Eltoro. IMO I hope we see alot more Int. woodies they give a new meaning to woodeis that aren't maitenance nightmares and deliver a fantastic ride. Amount of track replaced after first year 0 and how much was replaced on Voyage?

---

Honestly, Are you sure about that?

Im sure Intamin rides are good for a few seasons witnout any major maintenence, But when it needs it, You gotta call up intamin and have a new section sent to you. Shipping ect is very expensive! Also, I never got a cost figure on El Toro. My guess is it's over 15 million which putts it at over twice the cost of the average woodie.

If a park goes into a wooden coaster knowing they will have to spend 10-30 grand a year on maintence. I don't see it as a problem and certainly no different than replacing a few dozen 600 dollar wheels a year on a steelie. how bout the two million dollar paint jobs they need every four or five years?

Nobody's shown me nothin to prove steel maintenance cost less than wood maintenances.

I still say the average wooden coaster could run for a hundred years on the cost of even a moderate intamin or beemers initial cost.

No, I'm not against steel. I just don't see all these inovations as necessarily good for anything but bragging rights. It certainly don't make em a great ride over anything else

Most of my favorite steels are the quirky ones anyhow, The ones you don't see in every park out there.

Chuck

---

Charles Nungester said:
He he, He aint riddin Voyage or Hades now has he folks. Both far over the 100ft that makes up most people's distinction of being big or small.

---

I have ridden both and, what makes them different from the oldies like Colosus, American Eagle, Judge Roy Scream and the like are clever layouts. They are way more fun, exciting and comfortable than Rattler, SOB and othe monsters. And these rumors are coming from people way higher up in the industry than I.

---

Charles Nungester said:
Honestly, Are you sure about that?

Im sure Intamin rides are good for a few seasons witnout any major maintenence, But when it needs it, You gotta call up intamin and have a new section sent to you. Shipping ect is very expensive! Also, I never got a cost figure on El Toro. My guess is it's over 15 million which putts it at over twice the cost of the average woodie

---------------------------------------------------I do know it was 3million over budget but I would think your figure is about right.

---------------------------------------------------

If a park goes into a wooden coaster knowing they will have to spend 10-30 grand a year on maintence. I don't see it as a problem and certainly no different than replacing a few dozen 600 dollar wheels a year on a steelie. how bout the two million dollar paint jobs they need every four or five years?

---------------------------------------------------

I know LC is spending about 1million on retracking Boulder Dash this season.

SF parks go alot longer than 4or5 yrs between paint jobs. SROS at SFNE still has its original paint from 2000 and I think GASM at Gradv just go its first paint last year. How many times has Magnum XL200 been painted?

---------------------------------------------------

Nobody's shown me nothin to prove steel maintenance cost less than wood maintenances.

---------------------------------------------------

You have alot more wear and tear on a woodie not only on the track but it beats the crap out of the trains as well.

---------------------------------------------------

I still say the average wooden coaster could run for a hundred years on the cost of even a moderate intamin or beemers initial cost.

No, I'm not against steel. I just don't see all these inovations as necessarily good for anything but bragging rights. It certainly don't make em a great ride over anything else

Most of my favorite steels are the quirky ones anyhow, The ones you don't see in every park out there.

Chuck

---

GASM was repainted two years ago.

Im guessing the orignial paint on S:ROS is powder coat. Which most guarantee for ten years. Problem with powder coat is that you can't do it in the field.

Chuck

^wasn't sure what powder coating was, but I looked it up instead of asking ( http://www.finishing.com/Library/pennisi/powder.html ) lol. An interesting process.

Thrill Network lists El Toro as costing $12 million.

PA has more woodies than any other state but there is room for more.

Waldameer has one of the main ones coming in 2008 with Ravine Flyer II.

I would bet that the next really big thing at Kennywood will be a super woodie. That new ravine is just screaming for something like that to be put into it. KW could get something like this in without overextending their budget even if the road project continues to remain in doubt. Also, this is one of those parks that really knows how to take proper care of wood.

As for more modest sized woodies, there is a place for them as evidenced by such great coasters as Raven and Phoenix. Something like that is just what Idlewild needs. This park appears to combine characteristics of Knoebels and Holiday World but lacks the major wooden coasters that both of these parks have.

There is also DelGrossos. That multilooper might be the big thing for now but I believe that wood would be more in keeping with a park of this type. I could see a woodie replacing the looper several years down the road.

As for CLP and Lakemont, if they survive they should just keep maintaining the good wood that they already have.

Knoebels will, of course keep coming up with something in this catergory. The Flying Turns opens this year and then what could be next? Maybe a Virginia Reel or some other retro coaster.

Dorney? Given this park's size, it could use a second woodie but as long as Kinzel is around, this remains doubtful. They got burned with Hercules.

Hersheypark has three good woodies already and is more likely to focus on steel in the future. This park is one of the few parks that needs to add a hypercoaster.

I've been hearing for about a decade now that DelGrosso's wants a wood coaster. I wish they would just build it already, because their closest competitor, Lakemont, has two. On the other hand though, Lakemont doesn't have a looper.

We're in the next big thing era, just like in the mid/late 90s was the "bigger, faster, taller" era, we're now in the themed, wooden, unique coaster route.

We have Expedition Everest with it's amazing theming.

We have El Torro and The Voyage brining wood back and winning people's hearts.

And we have various spinning and odd ball coasters popping up.

It's a great time to be a coaster enthusiast, we're no longer two dimensional when it comes to rides, we have more meat on it. As fun ast TTD is, good riddence to the era of height, speed, and length over fun, themeing, and sparking the imagination.

I think that one thing that most of us will agree on will be the quality of some of the wooden coasters, not ride but pain factor because I know there are a few woodies out there that will beat you to death.

Bigger is not always better. Those two Indiana parks proved that modest sized wooden coasters can be really great with Raven and Cornball Express. The good thing about rides like this is that many parks can afford to put one in. In fact, they don't cost any more than some of those newer flats.

Spinning coasters also proved that good things can come in small packages.

I give CP a lot of credit for thinking "small" again with Maverick. This will not be a record setter but it is different in its own way and should have a lot of appeal.

And what about junior coasters. I think about rides such as Idlewilds Rollo Coaster or Knoebels High Speed Thrill coaster. Also, there can be more bigger, family friently coasters such as Mine Trains and other themed coasters. Family friendly doesn't mean you can't have coasters. You just have to have the right kind of coasters.

The Next big thing: Reverse Banking to get negative lateral G's!

As already mentioned, I think first and foremost a quality experience will be expected from guests with low maintance costs expected from the park. If El Toro and it's cousins operate consistantly with low maintance, I wouldn't be surprised to see more of them - It truly is an exceptional ride!

On the steel side, Furious Baco is certainly unique with it's seating configuration and could provide a unique experience. I'm surprised how expensive it is given it's height and length, and can't wait to see a POV and hear some ride reviews.

I think quality over quantity will be the next big thing and believe world records will still be broken in the years ahead.

Tom

Any chance of B&M designing/building a 4-across woodie design anytime soon?

Nothing with loops or rolls or anything, I mean just a regular sit-down, but 4-across like their other coasters.

Possibly even a floorless design would be possible. :)

I agree that the next big thing is back to wooden coasters. Especially going with GCII, the maintenance cost on a woodie is not what it used to be, depending on the design and the trains. I've heard that Lightning Racer at Hersheypark went several years before replacing any wood on the coaster. I'm sure Cedar Fair will discover this with Renegade, and the woodies will come. I'm hoping sooner than later with Dorney, but I'm a little biased. :) As long as we see 3-4 well-designed, well-placed woodies within the chain in the next 5 years I'll be happy, even if it doesn't include Dorney.

---

Charles Nungester said:

Nobody's shown me nothin to prove steel maintenance cost less than wood maintenances.

Chuck

---

I'm no expert, but aren't the major maintenance part on steelies the wheels? I'm guessing replacing sections of track (as a woodie ought to be maintained) is much more costly than changing the polyurethane on the steel coaster wheels.

Again, I'm no expert. . .

---

wahoo skipper said:
The problem with Dick Kinzel is that he doesn't mind spending $15-$20 million on a brand new coaster but then he never wants to spend another dime on it. You can't do that with wood.

---

After riding Mean Streak, Blue Streak, and Shivering Timbers I have to say CF does a pretty good job with their wooden coasters. Mean Streak suffers from a crappy layout and Blue Streak and Shivering Timbers are both great coasters.

Coaster enthusiast may like wooden coasters, but the price/popularity of wooden coasters isn't worth it to CF. That may be changing though.