Are 135+ deg Overbanked Turns Inversions?

That puts you at 45 degrees or less inverted with the ground. How overbanked can you get without that being called a real Inversion?

CP doesn't claim MF's 122 deg overbanked turns as Inversions. That is 58 inverted with the ground. However SF hve claimed the 120? deg overbanked turn on the Mr Freeze coasters as inversions. Same goes for the third 'inversion' - the overbanked 'loop' on Mind Bender or is it Mind Eraser? I think it was designed by Schwarzkopf and has box track similar to Intamin's.

How overbanked are the Incline Loops on B&M Stand Ups? RR, Mantis & Chang. RR's looks to be about 45 degs inverted with the ground.

Otherwise you could say MF has 4 Inversions. I would say less than 130 or 135 degrees is not an inversion. What do you think?

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Home Park - Wonderland Sydney, Australia, featuring;
1) The Demon - 1988 Vekoma Boomerang
2) The Bush Beast - 1985 KEC Woodie (Clone of PKD's Grizzly)
3) Beastie - 1985 KEC Junior Woodie
4) More steel coasters please!!! Preferably a B&M Masterpiece!

If it qualifies to be an inversion, it has to be 180 degrees or more. The most non-inversion turn you can get is like 179 degrees.

The defintion of an inversion includes 180 degrees and 180 degrees only, end of discussion.

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What is life without SFA?

So the Incline Loops on the B&M Stand Ups are not inversions?? Therefore Riddler's Revenge has 5 & not 6 inversions.

Oh, and B&M Diving Loops & Cobra Rolls are not inversions either as they're not banked exactly 180 degrees at the very top(s).

*** This post was edited by CoasterGod on 3/9/2001. ***

I think before we discuss angles we have to rememebr that coasters exist in 3 dimensions, and not on a flat plane.

I consider an element to be 'inverted' when my head is extending into the negative-Y direction.

(X being side to side, Y being up and down, and Z being forward and backward)

Thus, 122 degrees, being 32 degrees of negative Y, is 'inverted'. I'm tentative to call it an 'inversion' however.

I do consider tilted loops inversions, however, and the entirety of their (dominant) Y-axis is negative at the top of the loop, it is merely non-perpendicular with the plane (a misnomer itself) of the ground.

Below 135 degrees, however, I no longer consider the Y-axis dominant, and must be hesitant in referring to it as an inversion.

Wolf, I agree. Yup, Diving Loops & C.Rolls are inversions as their -Y axis is dominant.

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Home Park - Wonderland Sydney, Australia, featuring;
1) The Demon - 1988 Vekoma Boomerang
2) The Bush Beast - 1985 KEC Woodie (Clone of PKD's Grizzly)
3) Beastie - 1985 KEC Junior Woodie
4) More steel coasters please!!! Preferably a B&M Masterpiece!

Mr. Freeze only has one inversion, the tophat. I've never heard the overbanked curve called an inversion, besides it isn't.

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"Maybe I ain't so shy!"

I always thought of an inversion as being an element that makes a full 180 degree change in bank from the direction in which it started.

So if the bank is 122 degrees, such as MF and the track was banked in the oppisite direction upon entry by 58 degrees then it would be in my mind an inversion.

Confusing to explain...but it makes sense.

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Wolf said:
"I think before we discuss angles we have to rememebr that coasters exist in 3 dimensions, and not on a flat plane.

I consider an element to be 'inverted' when my head is extending into the negative-Y direction.

(X being side to side, Y being up and down, and Z being forward and backward)"

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There is a fourth dimension on X! So how many 'inversions' will it officially have? This is controversial as with PGA claiming that Stealth has 8 'inversions.'
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Home Park - Wonderland Sydney, Australia, featuring;
1) The Demon - 1988 Vekoma Boomerang
2) The Bush Beast - 1985 KEC Woodie (Clone of PKD's Grizzly)
3) Beastie - 1985 KEC Junior Woodie
4) More steel coasters please!!! Preferably a B&M Masterpiece!

I think it depends on the park and designers. If they both say it is an inversion, like the Incline Loop on Mantis, Chang etc., then it is an inversion. If they say it isn't, like the turns on MF, then it isn't.

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MF Drops-15
SOB Rides-2

Well obviously when it comes to Cedar Point they weren't going to call them inversions, just so they could have another record all to themselves. Sounds just like Cedar Point.

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Parks for 2000: CP, Great Escape, Great Adventure, SFA, Islands of Adventure, Kennywood

Overbanked turns are (by nature of the name overbanked turn) not inversions. If they were inversions they would be called cutbacks (Drachen Fire), which they are not.

Millennium Force does have a record with its turns, the highest non-inverting banked turnsof any coaster. They are either that or inversions, not both. CP calls them turns, they are turns.

B&M calls the incline loops inversions because they start from a banked position, flip you in a 360 degree loop, on that same angle of entry.

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"X" marks the spot in 2001!

Nice explaining, Soggy. Why must Cedar Point be picked on all the time just because its the best? I mean if you owned the greatest amusement park on earth wouldn't you try and get all the records too? I dont see why coasters or parks that go after records anymore have such a negative connotation.

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SAVE NAPSTER!
napster sn- tontomono
(I have been defeated)

I think itdepends on the company to be honest

look at Speed the ride premier says 2 inversions yet MF's turns are more banked but they say no inversions.

Stealth does not have 8 inversions whatever anyone says as the flips only half invert you.

Okay here is the thing. If you say that a roller coasters must go 180 degrees vertical to have a look than you leave out things like Incline Loops. But also, if you say that anything over 90 degrees is a look than there are no overbanked turns. It does depend on the company, and the park. I know Cedar Point wanted to get a lot of records for the Force and to have to steepest overbanked turn is one of them.

PGA has got to be on something because everytime I look at Stealth, I cannot see where they even came up with 8 inversions. The most I could come up with is about 6, if you include the horse shoe/cutback thing after the first drop.

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Best Coaster: Millennium Force
Worst Coaster: Project Stealth

I'm experiencing deja-vu (no pun intended); haven't we had this conversation before?

This is only my opinion, but I would say if you're more upside-down than right-side-up, you're inverted.

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"If you can't keep up with the conversation, I suggest you stay out of it..." Hannibal Lecter *** This post was edited by G-Man! on 3/10/2001. ***

^^^^Agreed^^^^

Well, technically, all rides have 4 dimensions. =)

Arrow's has a nice little third rail set-up that provides for an extra 'pitch' option independent of the course. Still a Z-axis move, however.

Stealth is... interesting. I think some of their inversion claims are somewhat bogus, however.

Maybe they count the station and lift hill as the other 2 inversions on Stealth? ;)
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A Monster is Rising!! Be afraid...be very afraid!
Reptar's revenge-April 7, 2001
PKI-Kings Mills, Ohio