Forces , transitions and B&M

Hit it right on the head Coastergenius. Coaster fanatic numbers are small in comparison so that's why parks plan on a 3-4 hour radius when planning their next rides, and will it bring more people in to the park. I got the oppurtunity to shoot the bull with Ryan Sullivan, director of marketing at Adventureland, and he explained that spending ten million dollars for a coaster wouldn't be bright because families take up the majority of the attendance. Hence the ever infamous acronym ROI wouldn't be justified.

And getting back to the subject, that's why B&M has "toned down" their coasters since.

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Randy Hutchinson
You build it, I'll ride it

There *is* such a thing as an intense coaster that is smoothly designed, without taking all the forces out Missy. Just ride Fire Dragon at IOA and you'll see. It's intense, and the mosy popular ride at IOA. It's strickly the park's choice. I'm not saying they should or shouldn't do it, just that it kills the coaster that's all. I could care less why the parks do it, when I board the coaster, brakes abosolutely kill the natural flow the the coaster. B&M have fixed this problem by removing the forces, period. Structural problems happen, but not very often on B&M's. Your thinking about Arrows which are not designed correctly to begin with...

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SOMETHING IS COMING!!!
In 2001 a new *beast* will rise at SFMM. *** This post was edited by Simcoaster on 11/20/2000. ***

Not only is it up to the parks to get what they pay for, but we seem to forget that a variety of rides is a good thing. Over on GTTP's forum, people go on and on about how "Iron Dragon sucks." Maybe it does for some people, but I've seen many children get off that ride with huge smiles on their face.

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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com

Variety is the key, Iron Dragon is a family ride. So is Adventureland Express. I don't go on those rides looking for intense sensations. I *do* expect that when I ride Raptor. Since when are large coasters built for everyone? They are one aspect of a park that appeals to a certain segment of the population. When you start to blend family rides with *supposed* thrill making coasters, you end up with very boring coasters IMO. If they were built to be intense, they should stay that way. You don't get an excuse pass from me just because there *might* be structural problems in the future. And although I do understand it from a business point of view, the last thing I'm thinking about on a rollercoaster is business.

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SOMETHING IS COMING!!!
In 2001 a new *beast* will rise at SFMM. *** This post was edited by Simcoaster on 11/20/2000. ***

if i want to ride a non intense coaster, ill ride a train...

BTW, do you guys think B&M (parks) would return to larger forces, and are other companies more willing to exhibit forces on riders than B&M

Gig... did you read any of this thread before posting?

Like every other business in the world (if you haven't figured out that these are business after the IAAPA coverage, you never will), the market determines what product is produced. If you think things are getting "soft," look at things a little harder. Some of the most intense coasters in history were built in the last year or two.

Again, it has nothing to do with the manufacturers.

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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com

This is a little off the direction the thread has been taking, but actually, Cedar Point has braked the Raptor in recent years. No, they have not added a trim, but the mid-course has been applied harder and harder every year for the last few years. During its first few years, Raptor went through its mid-course block without without even being braked at all, and then CP started to apply a light break at this spot. This past summer, I noticed that the trains slowed down a lot at the midcourse. I suppose the reason for this is to keep the speed somewhat low through that last kink in the ride (before the final breaks). That section gives a nasty jolt (which I like but have heard some complaints about it from people I've ridden with).

The braking on Raptor has nothing to do with intensity, it has to do with perfecting the dispatch interval. Presumably because of wheels, the weight of the grease, weather, phase of the moon, etc., the trains were apparently running a few seconds faster than they had been. Remember, if you don't have the trains arriving at each block point at the right time, you setup the ride. Even then, I've seen far stronger braking in previous years.

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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com

Actually people in my school get made fun of for not liking coasters, its like something to show how tough you are, and that's how I became to obsess over them and become a COASTERGENIUS.

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What is life without geniuses?

I keep hearing this argument about the GP wanting wussy rides...but if that is the case, then will somebody please explain Legend to me? I rode it on opening day and it was absolutely insane, quite possibly the most aggressive coaster I had ever ridden. That day was also opening day for the park. Moms, dads, young kids, grandparents...EVERYONE absolutely LOVED the Legend. I did not hear a single person get off and say (the equivalent of) "Legend was too intense for me!".
I'd like to know what evidence exists that "the GP" want mild coasters. I think the honest truth is that certain park managers think that their customers want mild rides...and they've never come up with any means of testing the theory.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

RideMan, that's what you get when the park asks ACErs for input on the design! Even the slight problem of the lap bars on Legend are being attended to, and this shows us two things: 1- Build what coaster-lovers want, and you will get great coasters. 2- we need more parks like Holiday World!

If the general public likes panzy rides the would somebody please explain to me why you never wait in line for four hours to ride the scrambler or carosel but you might wait that long for rides like Millenium Force or Goiath (or any other long line coaster for that matter).

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What is life without geniuses?

MillenniumForce, not to take anything away from Holiday World (Lord knows I'd never want to do that!!) the honest truth is that the lap bar redesign on the Gerstlauer trains has more to do with mechanical problems with the original design (most obviously as discovered by Six Flags...) than with Holiday World's desire to please coaster nuts. It's just that Holiday World knows we're watching, we're concerned, and we're interested...and telling us about the changes makes us happy with them. You will see those same modifications on all the Gerstlauer trains from Villain to MegaZeph next year.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

The newest B&M I have been on (Top Gun at Carowinds) is also the most intense. Like Montu, it has the batwing element, but unlike Montu, it is not braked. I put Top Gun right up with Raptor as my two favorite inverted coasters.

Weird, I think Top Gun was one of the least intense B&M inverted designs I've been on. Even Montu after the braking I felt was more intense. I LOVED Top Gun however, I thought it was thrown together quite well, nice mix of elements. The mist tunnel under the walkway is absolutely GENIUS!

Side note, just because I feel a coaster isn't intense, doesn't mean I think it's a bad coaster. It just means I don't think it's intense. ;)

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In the future, packages will be sent to distant worlds by BEAMS OF LIGHT! - Space Mountain WDW exit

Couple of notes,
Legendary & Poppy: I wouldn't say that Top Gun was the least intense B&M invert (that would be Raptor to me) but it was nowhere near B:TR or Fire Dragon. Still, I really like the layout and TG:TJC is my favorite invert!

RideMan:
Maybe I can give a little persective on the "GP = wuss" syndrome. 1st an example. After de-planing from the Incredible Hilk Coaster, my friend complained that it was "too rough" and had "too much headbanging". Another friend also told me that Viper @ SFGAm is "too rough" and "hurts". He had the same comments about Roar @ SFA. More people than one might think feel coasters are (at least mildly) painful.

Now how could 'Legend' get built? To best attack that question ponder not on how it got built but rather where it got built. Holiday World is a park so far removed from the big time "New York" lawyers, so litigation is not that big of an issue. I would be willing to bet that if one of the HW locals got injured in hte park, they would be inclined to think that it was their cause (personal responsibility) rather than the park's. And those patrons who do visit that are from areas where litigation is prevalent...well most of those are enthusiasts who like that sort of stuff
(Note: this is an untested therory, with no clear scientific basis. However, I do believe it passes a general "smell test")
lata,
jeremy *** This post was edited by 2Hostyl on 12/30/2000. ***