Why isn't Millenium Force a hypercoaster
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Okay this came up in chitown's "Raging Bull" thread, but I didnt want to polute that thread with this discussion. Okay, in my opinion, MF is a hypercoaster. Giga-coaster, to me doesnt mean anything. Hypercoaster at least makes me picture a large steel coaster with no loops. Giga-coaster just seems to be an extraneous term. What is so special about 300 feet? Would MF be any less awesome if it was only 299ft? I doubt it. MF and SD2K are STILL hypercoasters. Let us (the coaster fans) not buy into the senseless hype (pun intended) that a park/manufactuer has presented to accentuate a non-existant difference.
lata,
the hostyl one
lata,
the hostyl one
Huh? Are you kidding me here? Think about what you are saying...
Where did the term hypercoaster come from? The same place gigacoaster did. Hypercoaster is just as bogus a term as gigacoaster is. Marketing types made them both up. Arrow coined the term hypercoaster, so why do you use that term if you won't use gigacoaster? I don't really care what you call MF, but I do think it is hypocritical to extoll one made-up term while condemning another. Back in 1989 you probably didn't have this opposition to hypercoaster, so why have it now for gigacoaster?
Where did the term hypercoaster come from? The same place gigacoaster did. Hypercoaster is just as bogus a term as gigacoaster is. Marketing types made them both up. Arrow coined the term hypercoaster, so why do you use that term if you won't use gigacoaster? I don't really care what you call MF, but I do think it is hypocritical to extoll one made-up term while condemning another. Back in 1989 you probably didn't have this opposition to hypercoaster, so why have it now for gigacoaster?
Because it isn't nessessary. Hypercoaster is enough. Do we really need a new term every time a coaster gets 50ft higher? I guess we should call Goliath a "hypergigahalfcalf" LOL!
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You may get wet on this attraction, you may even get drenched! But can you survive the PLUNGE? *** This post was edited by Simcoaster on 9/12/2000. ***
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You may get wet on this attraction, you may even get drenched! But can you survive the PLUNGE? *** This post was edited by Simcoaster on 9/12/2000. ***
Of course we don't need a new term every time coasters rise higher, that's not my point. The term hypercoaster isn't necessary either, that's my point. How can you say this one of these industry coined terms is OK and that the other one isn't? That doesn't make any sense. If you are gonna use one, you might as well use both.
Also, try http://www.dictionary.com sometime. *** This post was edited by Camel on 9/12/2000. ***
Also, try http://www.dictionary.com sometime. *** This post was edited by Camel on 9/12/2000. ***
Actually, my reasoning is not hypocritical, but perhaps I did not explain myself well enough. For that I apologize. To me, the term "hypercoaster" means a large steel coaster with no loops. As far as I'm concerned, Steel Eel (SWT) is as much a hyper as Magnum even though it is only 170ft tall. Back in 1989, I called Magnum the same thing I call it today: a big *** coaster (and yes, I was at CP in '89). In fact, it wasn't until about 3 years ago that I ever heard the term "hypercoaster". I have no problem with our pastime creating new terms to describe new concepts. But simply exceeding 300ft in height does not a new concept make. A steel coaster mimicing the feel of a woodie, that was different. A BIGGER steel coaster mimicing the feel of a woodie, is STILL a steel coaster mimicing the feel of a woodie. There is no difference between the two, so the added jargon is superfluous. If we buy into that brand of thinking, the only true "hypercoasters" are Magnum, Desparado, and maybe the Morgans. The S:ROSes are "Megacoasters", and RB & AC are "speed coasters". That's just silly. Hypercoaster is a sufficient name for all of them as well as any other coaster with similar layout. Even if that layout includes a hill or drop in excess of 300 feet.
lata,
the hostyl one (who is starting to believe there is some merit to the 'doublespeak' of "1984")
P.S. Additionally, unless I'm mistaken, ARROW did NOT come up with that term. A reporter or some type of media personnel presented that moniker. *** This post was edited by 2Hostyl on 9/12/2000. ***
lata,
the hostyl one (who is starting to believe there is some merit to the 'doublespeak' of "1984")
P.S. Additionally, unless I'm mistaken, ARROW did NOT come up with that term. A reporter or some type of media personnel presented that moniker. *** This post was edited by 2Hostyl on 9/12/2000. ***
I agree with camel. I will bet money that when, and I stress when, a full circuit chain/elevator lift coaster goes higher than 400 feet, it will be called a tera-coaster. I know it's just marketing, but that's what makes people come and ride it. It's an attention getter to the public if anything else.
And B&M will call their new 8 inversion floorless a "Spiderlooper". And Intamin will call their new 10 inversion sit down coaster a "Centecoaster". LOL! Come on Camel, where does it end. It's silly marketing and nothing more. If you choose to buy into it, fine. But when all the year end polls come out, I guess MF and SD will go in their own categories right? Wrong! They will go right along side Goliath, Raging Bull and all the rest.
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You may get wet on this attraction, you may even get drenched! But can you survive the PLUNGE? *** This post was edited by Simcoaster on 9/12/2000. ***
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You may get wet on this attraction, you may even get drenched! But can you survive the PLUNGE? *** This post was edited by Simcoaster on 9/12/2000. ***
Well, you may be correct as far as who came up with the term, I don't know for sure. Given your definition for hypercoaster, I agree with you 100%. Certainly there is not a need to create a category of ride for all the types you mentioned. (You forgot one, hypertwister ;))
However, if you take the industry accepted definition of hypercoaster, all my above comments stand. (I doubt the people who agreed with 2Hostyl were aware of this revised definition)
Seriously, I just like to play devil's advocate to see where people are coming from.
--Camel (who really wishes this equivocation hadn't occurred because we can't argue this anymore :) ) *** This post was edited by Camel on 9/12/2000. ***
However, if you take the industry accepted definition of hypercoaster, all my above comments stand. (I doubt the people who agreed with 2Hostyl were aware of this revised definition)
Seriously, I just like to play devil's advocate to see where people are coming from.
--Camel (who really wishes this equivocation hadn't occurred because we can't argue this anymore :) ) *** This post was edited by Camel on 9/12/2000. ***
Simcoaster, you totally missed my point (again). Of course they will name their rides something new. I don't "buy into it" anymore than you do when you use the term hypercoaster. I just (again) don't see the logic in using hypercoaster (as it is typically defined) and not using gigacoaster. That's all I am saying. I don't think every ride should have some special category, of course that's silly.
--Camel (Who realizes that there is still plenty to argue!!)
--Camel (Who realizes that there is still plenty to argue!!)
I was having some fun with you Camel. It's apples and oranges, and no one is really right or wrong. That's what I love about debates like this. My only point is that hypercoaster is a name that caught on, Giga is not. People pull out that term when it's convenient, but ultimately when we look at MF we see the same thing, a 300ft hypercoaster.
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You may get wet on this attraction, you may even get drenched! But can you survive the PLUNGE?
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You may get wet on this attraction, you may even get drenched! But can you survive the PLUNGE?
But even if you throw away my *personal* feelings about what a hypercoaster is, and go with the industry/fan base accepetd meaning, MF & SD2K are STILL hypercoasters. If I'm not in error the definition contains three parts:
1. A hill or drop of at least 200 feet
2. No inversion
3. Steel tracked
MF and SD2K certainly fit the bill. BY the way, how would you even pronounce gigacoaster? I would think that it would sound like jig-AH-coe-stir though I'm sure many others would use a hard G (as opposed to my soft G).
Also: I enjoy debates. In fact, I find convos more interesting when the opposite idea is presented. Though I was serious about this one.
P.S. good catch on the "hypertwister" thing =] *** This post was edited by 2Hostyl on 9/12/2000. ***
1. A hill or drop of at least 200 feet
2. No inversion
3. Steel tracked
MF and SD2K certainly fit the bill. BY the way, how would you even pronounce gigacoaster? I would think that it would sound like jig-AH-coe-stir though I'm sure many others would use a hard G (as opposed to my soft G).
Also: I enjoy debates. In fact, I find convos more interesting when the opposite idea is presented. Though I was serious about this one.
P.S. good catch on the "hypertwister" thing =] *** This post was edited by 2Hostyl on 9/12/2000. ***
Belive it or not, Giga coaster actually came from the name Intamin gave to their technology. As for using the term, it may just be a marketting trick, but it does help in giving a coaster a bit of an auora(sp please?) and besides, who cares? A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet or, a coaster by any other nomenclature is just as thrilling so please, lets not fight over stupid stuff.
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Six Flags America IS a Six Flags park!
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Six Flags America IS a Six Flags park!
A part of me says, "Who cares what you call it?"
On the other hand, let's explore. If I recall correctly, Magnum's launch saw the birth of the term hypercoaster as the first 200+ foot coaster. I don't know who coined the term, but I'm going to take a shot in the dark and say it was either something in an ACE publication or someone in Cedar Point marketing.
Enter Millennium Force. Intamin bolts little name plates on to the trains that say "Gigacoaster." Clearly it's a marketing term, and one that Morgan has not used to describe Steel Dragon.
I would tend to agree that it's an unnecessary term, but hey, look at how much it's being used.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
On the other hand, let's explore. If I recall correctly, Magnum's launch saw the birth of the term hypercoaster as the first 200+ foot coaster. I don't know who coined the term, but I'm going to take a shot in the dark and say it was either something in an ACE publication or someone in Cedar Point marketing.
Enter Millennium Force. Intamin bolts little name plates on to the trains that say "Gigacoaster." Clearly it's a marketing term, and one that Morgan has not used to describe Steel Dragon.
I would tend to agree that it's an unnecessary term, but hey, look at how much it's being used.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
Somebody please shoot me!
Isn't Millenium Force a roller coaster? It in it's purest form is essentially the same as the Cedar Creek Mine Ride. Goes up a hill, goes down. It does this most fascinating thing thanks to gravity and a few wheels on which it rolls.
Giga - Giant, Billion.
Hyper - Above, beyond, excessive.
Both of these terms are stupid for what the first name perfectly described. Yes, they are all roller coasters, plain and simple.
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LONG LIVE ARROW DYNAMICS!!
Isn't Millenium Force a roller coaster? It in it's purest form is essentially the same as the Cedar Creek Mine Ride. Goes up a hill, goes down. It does this most fascinating thing thanks to gravity and a few wheels on which it rolls.
Giga - Giant, Billion.
Hyper - Above, beyond, excessive.
Both of these terms are stupid for what the first name perfectly described. Yes, they are all roller coasters, plain and simple.
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LONG LIVE ARROW DYNAMICS!!
Revolutionary- yes. Good point. I don't think any of us lost sight of that, we're rather enjoying a good debate, but good to bring it up. Thank you.
Simcoaster- whoops. Sorry I misinterpreted. ;)
2Hostyl- Yes MF fits those criteria, but, that term is still a marketing term and just because it has been used for a longer time doesn't mean it holds any more truth than gigacoaster (pronounced with a hard g by me, but it doesn't matter) does. Given the definition, again created by a marketing team, MF is a gigacoaster as well as a hypercoaster. So...
All gigacoasters are hypercoasters
Some hypercoasters are gigacoasters
There's enough room in my town for the both of them. It just depends on whether you are going to accept this term into our language. You let hypercoaster in, and maybe gigacoaster is a bit superfluous, but given it is really just a marketing term the same as hypercoaster, I don't understand the resistance. *** This post was edited by Camel on 9/12/2000. ***
Simcoaster- whoops. Sorry I misinterpreted. ;)
2Hostyl- Yes MF fits those criteria, but, that term is still a marketing term and just because it has been used for a longer time doesn't mean it holds any more truth than gigacoaster (pronounced with a hard g by me, but it doesn't matter) does. Given the definition, again created by a marketing team, MF is a gigacoaster as well as a hypercoaster. So...
All gigacoasters are hypercoasters
Some hypercoasters are gigacoasters
There's enough room in my town for the both of them. It just depends on whether you are going to accept this term into our language. You let hypercoaster in, and maybe gigacoaster is a bit superfluous, but given it is really just a marketing term the same as hypercoaster, I don't understand the resistance. *** This post was edited by Camel on 9/12/2000. ***
OKay since I am the one who said "Millennium Force" is not a hypercoaster I guess I better explain. A hypercoaster is a roller coaster over 200 feet off the ground. If you want to get tech about it then, a hypercoaster must have a 200 foot lift hill in my opinion. Sorry all the Steel Phantom lovers. Hypercoasters can have loops. There is one in Las Vegas. Now you cannot say a 170 foot coaster is a hypercoaster. A hypercoaster is a term for a 200+ foot coaster not just a large coaster in general. Millennium Force is a Gigacoaster because it is a roller coaster over 300 feet. I think its a dumb name but thats what it is.
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Number 1 And Only Cedar Point
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Number 1 And Only Cedar Point
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