Six Flags reinstates park presidents

Nobody lives within "Hey, let's stop by the park for a bit" distance.

I stopped on my way South last week because of it’s location, that part of 95 from DC to Richmond is always packed, and Richmond is starting to creep North, I stayed at the half way point, and Richmond is only 20 min away. Getting out to BGW to me is far more of a pain.

My reading is SFFT and KD just had years long park improvements, and major investments, with SFFT still having another already planned and designed. What KD really needs is Operations help and budget, and continued new CF food improvements.

Dorney and SFNE are interesting, every time I went Dorney last year it was slammed more then GrAdv. SFNE much like KD just needs better ops and up time.

Surely Mexico never lost it’s president and Oreilly claimed it as bright spot after his visit.

Great Adventure is near one of the biggest metro areas in North America and has received significant investments in coasters over the last 20 years, yet Kings Island outdraws it by a fair bit.

KD has and continues to receive quality coasters, yet it is far behind its sister park in attendance.

Location matters. People just don't want to drive much over half an hour to a regional park, "thoosies" excepted.

CreditWh0re:

That area was already in a steep decline, and then 2008 hit.

What "area" are you talking about? I worked in various places around that "area" at the time and they were no worse or better off than anywhere else. What I'm telling you isn't an anecdote, I knew the people on the ground. Bad decisions were the park's downfall, not viability.

Shades:

I do have to wonder how much longer it would have lasted as a "company picnic" park. That seems like a by-gone era at this point.

And yet, Stricker's Grove remains in business despite being open to the public only two days a year.

I think the company picnic park is a perfectly viable model, and we could surely name others. They just tend not to be owned by large, national corporations.

Great Adventure is near one of the biggest metro areas

Its 15 min closer to me then Dorney, and sometimes I still go to Dorney. Its still in the middle of NJ and hour plus from NYC and slightly less to Philly.

It’s off nearly a million visits from its high thanks to the crazy that was Old SF, pretty sure it’s lost the most number of rides in the whole chain.

Luckily it did get a lot of unique rides under old SF though, but it couldn’t help the slide in customer service, up time, and ops. The chaperone policy, fixing of food offerings, paint and polish, return of Live E, reattaching the Safari, has really corrected course. Building the Boardwalk only in Spring is a choice, but they are really cranking along on it. And each week something else gets painted or fixed.

I drove past Cedar Point to get to Six Flags Ohio!

If you drive speed limits it's an hour to Philly from Great Adventure. I drive at what the traffic is doing and it's still 40 minutes for me and I live 10 mins east of Philly. Dorney and Hershey are 1.5 hours. So yes non Thoosies do drive an hour to 1.5 hours to a park if it's the option.

And as Sharpel said the park was hurting due to much more than ride package so much so it lost customers to Dorney and Hershey. Hershey seems to be falling into the old Great Adventure trap now. Dorney has always been slammed for the water park. Ride side not so much but it has gotten busier recently.

KD (5 hours south of me) was what I called my home park the last 2 years and yes the operations of things (mainly in the food and beverage locations) needed help but the crowds weren't as problematic as Great Adventure. I got plenty of comments when talking with other patrons about me driving that far to go to what I considered better parks. It just meant making weekends of the trips and doing KD and BGW about once a month.

As for the Boardwalk it's exactly what Great Adventure needed along with the food upgrades, Live E and atmospherics (paint and landscaping). That park has almost no flat rides in it. Adding 3 is a great move. I don't count Super Roundup as it's replacing the one that was elsewhere. The other three are perfect additions to the park. I never thought we'd get Flying Skooters at Great Adventure.

kpjb:
I drove past Cedar Point to get to Six Flags Ohio!

There's a throwback from the past!!! Loved it lol.

As someone who grew up driving SR 4 from just north of Columbus to Cedar Point, the idea that a park can't survive because folks won't drive 90 minutes from DC to Kings Dominion is just weird to me.

Should also mention there's been a ton of people wearing Six Flags America stuff at Great Adventure. Seems the moving of the America season passes to Great Adventure/East Region passes was not a bad move. Baltimore/DC to Great Adventure is how far?

The bad decisions at Geauga Lake started almost immediately after Cedar Fair took over. I don't remember them all, but there were a number of self-inflicted PR gaffes. The most memorable one that comes to mind was the cancellation of a "ticket to read" program. Local students of a certain age were incentivized to read books and, after so many of them, they would get a free ticket to the park. I admit to not knowing how many free tickets were given away during that promotion, but I suspect the value of the tickets was dwarfed by the bad press and the long memories of loyal customers who saw that move as a big slap in the face.

If I recall, there was a series of bad moves like this one within that first season, and that left a very bad impression in the mouths of park customers. Keep in mind, that is generally the same fan base who, after the Browns left Cleveland, forced the NFL to reinstate a team by sheer will and determination.

The downfall of Geauga Lake cannot be attributed to any one entity or decision. But, Cedar Fair's takeover, and those early gaffes were a misfire. Paramount's divestiture of its parks was an unexpected opportunity that Cedar Fair chased. Selling the Aurora properties was a necessary sacrifice to lessen the financial burden brought about by the Paramount Park acquisitions. Six Flags sweeping in thinking they could just spend their way onto a competitive level with Cedar Point was chutzpah. The recession was the straw that broke the camel's back...but it was a trail of speed bumps and craters that was the demise of my once beloved Geauga Lake.

Dragonoffrost: Regarding your driving example, I wouldn't exactly consider you a non-thoosie. You're debating park attendance on a dedicated roller coaster site. Of course you'll drive an hour or more.

Hambone: It's not a matter of surviving; rather, thriving. KI sells a ton of season passes to locals who treat a trip to the park like a trip to the movies. When you add in drink and dining plans, they're pulling in $300 a head, and that's at the highest season-pass price in the chain outside of Knotts.

I stopped by Friday- season pass preview day. Was as busy as a Saturday in July by the evening. And they spend... so so much Phantom Theatre merch. Sunday had temps in the 50s and was just as crowded; KD can only dream of crowds like that.

Average household income in Sandusky, OH is about $60,000.

Mason?

About $170,000.

Bring on the merch. And blue ice cream.

Metallik: I've been to GAdv 9 times this year and I can say every time I've seen a lot of SFA merch worn. And I've talked with people while having a brew that switched to GAdv and will be driving 2 hours up from Maryland to GAdv now that that's their closest park along with Hershey which costs way more and is starting to see the same issues GAdv. The nonThoosies from SFA are driving to GAdv seeing the Boardwalk and their old rides and saying they will return.

Even when the local park Thoosies are rebelling/boycotting over the loss of Ka and calling Project Purple a gimmick coaster. Which they hate being told Ka was a gimmick coaster.

KD can only dream of crowds like that.

I was there on a SB Thurs and was surprised how busy it was, it was also 82. I waited 15 or so for Pantherion, 45 or so with a launch cycle reset for Rapterra, and maybe 35 for Twisted Timbers. And just missed getting on Grizzly at 6. The only real issue was everything was single train which only really make sense for Pantherion.

Planet Snoopy was packed, and I much prefer its International Street as the trees have not been reset.

The senior op on Twisted was from Dorney, which considering the growth in the area, staff should not be an issue. Which is weird cause they had the most effective and present sweep staff I seen at a New SF park in the past 3 years.

Also with the closing of SFA I am sure KD and GrAdv will both get bumps, and considering the Ops and Food and Pricing have really gone south at BGW, Im sure KD will get even more.

GrADV can and hopefully will turn things around... they're in the sticks but I think the NYC metro should be able to deliver enough people willing to make the trip, IF the park is revitalized properly. Purple looks like a good start.

Keep in mind, I have nothing against either KD or GrADV (or any other park), and I hope they both thrive, but I really do think KD is drawing on a dry well regardless of what SF does, and that's why SF kinda relegated it with this president thing.

Sharpel, you mention the trees, and I agree KD's midway is prettier, but that also reinforces my opinion, as KI's trees were removed because increasing I-street crowds made them desperate for more seating space. KD has zero local neighborhoods to fill the park on slow weekdays and it has only two cities of any size within 150 miles (and the next closest city is on the other side of DC). The location might have looked good in the early 70s but it just didn't grow into a populated, high-income area like Mason (OHStater's point is quite valid).

kpjb:

I drove past Cedar Point to get to Six Flags Ohio!

In the greatest plot twist of all, the person in charge of operations (yes, those operations) at Six Flags Ohio is now in charge of Cedar Point.

Time is a vicious circle.

KD thrived for years. Its location isn't the issue. I wouldn't be sad if it sold, as long as a buyer was interested in keeping the park alive. Never really dug the idea of it being a Six Flags park.

I also have a feeling Rapterra didn’t give the boost they expected, and after fixing everything else. I think they also under estimated just how behind in line up and reputation it feel behind to KI and CW under Paramount.

I’ve visited King’s Dominion and as a regular visitor to King’s Island I felt the park was beautiful in a way KI is not. International Street and the right side of the park have wonderful foliage/trees that make it bearable in summer heat. The left side is now much more thematicly improved with Jungle Xpedition. The obvious issue is they don’t get the capital improvement budget like KI and they have strong competition with Busch Gardens. That said, they should be doing phenomenal group sales business given the amount of corporations and government entities in the region. Given I’ve worked at parks that had 50% attendance by group outings, I’d be curious what their mix is and if that aspect has room for growth? The park easily should be pulling in 2.5-3 million which I believe it was back in Paramount days.