Zonga or Taz Texas Tornado

TrickTrack, Every coaster is designed by Stengle. Flashback is an INTAMIN Space Diver. Gio only sub contracted (track fab most likely). No BEEP here. And not B or M either, as they worked at INTAMIN at the time.

^I stand by my BEEP (o.k. only two "e" this time)

Back in the day Intamin were only a sales contractor. The rides from the seventies and eighties which are nowadays labelled INTAMIN were completely built by Giovanola. (Towers, Freefalls, Looping Starships, etc). They were not just subcontractors.

The "Spacediver" was actually the first large coaster built by Intamin/Giovanola (as they are credited in some publications) apart from some kiddie coasters. Intamin contacted Stengel with the idea of the Spacediver. Stengels office did the layout and one of Stengels employees (Harald Wanner, this guy gets too little credit) was the specialist who did the dynamics and the spline-function calculations.

B&M were engineers at Gio not Intamin. The box track is a patent of Giovanola, it was most certainly their brainchild. B&Ms office is just down the road from the old Giovanola factory, which sadly went bankrupt a few years ago.

When Schwarzkopf went bankrupt, most patents were bought up by Intamin. Thats why you will find a good portion of the Schwarzkopf catalogue in Intamin brochures from the early nineties(Bayernkurve, portable coasters like the double loop) would by definition be Intamin-rides. Even SFMMs Revolution is sometimes credited to Intamin. Maybe that´s why there is so much confusion about the origins of certain rides.

Its all incest anyway :)

My sources are the publication "Rollercoaster - Der Achterbahn Designer Werner Stengel" by Klaus Schützmansky and my own obsessive research which goes back to 1977. *** Edited 8/14/2005 5:15:56 PM UTC by tricktrack***

did Anton Schwarzkopf die

I find it interesting how these people were and are able to cooperate with one another so strongly in such a competitive market - I guess they screwed each other more than once along the way, but still Schwarzkopf/Gerstlauer/Stengel/Intamin/B&M/Giovanola and a few more just seem to form an inseperable complex meta company.

I always suspected that Mr Stengel must have really talented people in his team that we never hear anyhting about because he himself is attracting all the attention.

Mr Schwarzkopf died in 2001 after suffering from Parkinson's disease for a few years.
There is a website dedicated to his company by a fan which contains lots of info about history:
http://schwarzkopf.coaster.net/

Yep....but his son Wieland lives on...damaging the old man's reputation AND rides at an alarming rate... :(

Virtually every time a thread comes up about Whizzer, or PGA's defunct shuttle loop GL, the *answer* from the parks is that they had extreme difficulties procuring parts for the rides...I think that *could* be tied in with the constant mention of Knoebels when those rides, or the Antons from FlamingoLand come up...DK *has* parts! ;)

P.S. The original "Mr. Rollercoaster" may have gone on to the great lithill in the sky, but his spirit lives on...think I'm gonna have to move to Arlington or Atlanta though, can't stand being so far away from his customized wonders...
*** Edited 8/14/2005 6:17:36 PM UTC by rollergator***

But it would still be an Intamin if they came up with the idea and took it to Stengle. I still don't see how what I said/what is listed is wrong.

If I come up with an idea for a house, I'm not going to be able to do the architecture work, nor the construction/fabrication. I may tell them all what I want, and they'll build it, but it is still my initial idea, and if I sell it, then I'm selling my product regardless of how many other companies worked on it.

Intamin came up with an idea, took it to Stengle to design it, and to it to Gio to actually build (since they were a SUB-contractor) the ride. It is still an Intamin product, since it was their idea, and they actually sold the ride.

Thusly, Flashback was an Intamin ride.

Well, then its a matter of definition.

I just wanted to shift the attention from Intamin to Giovanola, who built, engineered and mostly even conceived the rides which are always credited as Intamin.

I think that Intamins role in the seventies and eighties is very fishy, as they were certainly not the company which they are now.

(that´s why me "beep" is losing more "e´s". Its more a "bep" now.)

I guess along the same logic you could maybe say that Revolution at SFMM is an Intamin ride - even though it seems to be 100% Schwarzkopf.
Intamin were functioning as the international agents for Schwarzkopf at the time, and not really a production facility for roller coasters.

The cooperation on Flashback between Intamin, Giovanola and Stengel etc. might have been a different matter though, as it is much later as well.

Did Intamin have something to do with Goliath as well?

*** Edited 8/15/2005 12:20:14 PM UTC by superman***

^ Goliath at SFMM is pure Giovanola (or G-Tec, as they labelled their coaster manufacturing outlet). There must have been a point where the boys at Gio were pissed with all the contracts B&M and Intamin were bringing in.

G-Tecs credo on the trade fairs was something along the lines of "we want the industry to know who really builds all the spectacular rides".

Sadly, this didn´t work out quite as well. Because of their head-on venture into the coaster market, the company went bankrupt after a history of over 100 years as a steel builder (building bridges was another speciality by them).

Saying that Revolution was built by Intamin is one of those misconceptions that even the folks of ACE are getting wrong.:

http://www.coasterbuzz.com/rollercoasterphoto.htm?i=1113

(This plaque is very misleading! So here is the history of Revolution in a nutshell: MM wanted a looping coaster. MM asked Intamin. Intamin asked Anton. Anton asked Werner. Werner was thinking and came up with the Clothoide. Anton said it could be done. Anton built a loop, a drop and a brake. Anton rides it, big wigs from MM ride it. Everybodys happy. Anton builds the ride after a design by Werner. The ride gets shipped to America and costs only 2 million dollars. Intamin get a share for the deal. The looping-age has begun.)

Another ride that was credited to Intamin is Eurostar which is actually a micture of many contractors, but even the blueprints say "Giovanola".

http://metamorph.coaster.net/eurostarGF.html

Thanks tricktrack, that's quite interesting.
I knew Mr Stengel was behind it somewhere, but I thought - good god, he can't have invented everyhting, can he. :)

Is it possible that the split between G-Tec and B&M or the bankrupcy of Giovanola has anything to do with the latest vibrations and bad ride experiences on newer B&M coasters?
I heard people be really annoyed by Silverstar and Scream etc. does also not get the highest rankings. I know Silverstar had Mack somewhere in the equation, and the steel track for Scream was manufactured in the U.S. I think.
But I am really speculating here.

Eurostar just had so many contributors... it's a wonder that thing really fits together the way it does. :)

*** Edited 8/15/2005 2:36:52 PM UTC by superman***

---

superman said:I knew Mr Stengel was behind it somewhere, but I thought - good god, he can't have invented everyhting, can he.

---

Not *everything* just most everything NOT attributable to Schwarzkopf... ;)

Our Family has the original Thriller sign! We got it at a Auction from one of the park events! Texas that is. I did get to ride Taz from 5:30 to 10:00 on one event when the opened it. I think I rode it some 80 times.

^ Dude, you must be a roughneck! :)
No honestly... you had no problems riding it 80 times...? wow!
:)