You're being watched! ;)
Their big push right now is to improve response times in the event of Bad Things (TM) at parks.
They're not Nazis, the're not a firing squad, and they're not tools. Have any of you actually *spoken* to any of the ASO guys (except you, Moosh. I know you got the short end of the stick in your communication with them.) about what they're doing without flaming them first?
Barry, I suggest you read this article.
*** Edited 9/27/2005 9:56:19 PM UTC by Michael Darling***
Sounds like a match made in heaven.
I guess it's healthy to have a hobby but going to enthusiast events to babysit? Geez louise.
A day at the park is what you make it!
What do enthusiast events offer with respect to improving medical response that a standard operating day does not?
They have far more in common with ambulance-chasers than concerned citizens, as they have a clear history of first identifying problems, then offering their firms services to alleviate or eliminate them. It's a scam, kids.
With all of that said, this Jason Herrara character is responsible for some pretty awful writing that, at the same time, manages to be astoundingly inciteful, libelous and funny. :)
--Madison
John said: Their big push right now is to improve response times in the event of Bad Things (TM) at parks.
Perhaps, but there is an ulterior motive. Here's the real deal to anyone who connects the dots: Jason Herrera, the guy who runs ASOrg, also runs a CPR Training company. The ASOrg is not out to police enthusiasts. Rather, Jason wants parks to pay for his training course.
Here is info on Jason's other company, Herrera Safety Group:
HSG is a Santa Barbara-based California State Licensed First Aid Company. We offer a variety Our courses offer a variety of training programs to fit your needs. Our programs have been submitted for review and approval (State of California, Emergency Medical Services Authority, Program Number 00-1116-DC), and exceeds OSHA and the Department of Transportation's requirements. We focus our efforts on health and safety programs most critical to your industry.
Our professional certification programs for business, industry and the general public use the most up to date standards. Media Release Contact: Mr. Jason Herrera President/CEO Herrera Safety Group Phone: (805) 689-xxxx
Want further proof? Check this link. Of interest, this passage [note the bold section]:
On June 20th 2002, Jason Herrera presented information and commented on response times and first aid requirements to the Occupational Health and Standards Board. He stated that his company deals with park accidents and has found that response times in theme parks for first aid can be between ten and fifteen minutes. He said his company would like to propose a law or act that would require ride operators to have basic knowledge of first aid and CPR skills that
could be taught by his company.
Board member Art Murray expressed concern with the language of proposed Section 3195.7(c) dealing with the requirement of one person to have a valid certificate for first aid and CPR and asked if one person was sufficient. He suggested that it was not. Len Welsh responded that one person was probably not sufficient and briefly discussed the reason for the language. He pointed out that one person After a brief conversation with, Mr. Art Murray, he reiterated the fact that one person trained in first aid at an amusement park was no good.
has to be readily available at all times."
This is what MASSTORT.org said about the ASORg: "In what could be a case study in how not to evaluate ride safety, or possibly how website
operators can call visits to amusement parks (deductible?) 'independent safety observations,' I point you to AmusementSafety.org."
Sam Marks of Coasterzombies wrote Kathy Fackler, the woman who started a ride safely organization after her son's foot was caught in Big Thunder at Dianeyland. According to Sam she replied that "Jason was a self centered egomainiac, who couldn't accept any criticism, and who kept his ideas secret so people wouldn't steal them. Kathy dismissed him as someone she didn't wish to associate with in the future."
The amusement industry will deal with Jason in the manner in which they see fit. I strongly suggest we no longer legitamize Jason and his "organization" by continuing to speak about them.
*** Edited 9/27/2005 10:23:42 PM UTC by Mamoosh***
I thank you for your thoughtful and respectful reply. Replies like that seem to be few and far between in discussions on this topic.
I do have to say, however, that neither Sam Marks nor Kathy Fackler are very creditable on this topic in my opinion. Rather than raise awareness and try to improve things, Kathy's approach is simply to scare people. She offers little or no input on anything but "avoid this, it's dangerous."
Sam's approach to this topic is name calling and harrassment.
I understand your ill feelings toward them, Moosh. In fact, I have a few of my own. (Check this thread on Rideworld for why). I urge you, though, to give them a chance and just wait a while and see where they go.
If it turns out in six months or a year that all these guys are doing is getting training contracts with parks or they actually *start* getting free admission somewhere, I will eat my words and apologize to everyone.
Just stop the name calling, everyone. Stop just assuming that these guys are out to ruin everyone or just get a free ride. I promise they aren't the Coaster Preservation Organization (formly Club) with a different name.
Michael Darling said:
I know I'm going to catch a lot of flack for this, but I know some of the ASO guys personally and I can assure that their motives are not simply to gain park admission.
No flack from me, we're cool, and I knew you knew some of the guys before I posted. I don't want anyone thinking I'm just being a *cough*, but your next sentence was perfect timing ;).
Their big push right now is to improve response times in the event of Bad Things (TM) at parks.
That would be fine with me. Heck, I think any business can improve in that area. There are always new ways to improve. However...I've seen that stated by them, though not on their site. Everything on that site is a lot of spin and the only thing I'm deciphering from all of that spin is that any injury that happens at a park, regardless of the underlying cause (or in some cases, motive) needs to be an issue.
I also see a lot of 'enthusiasts are bad, and must be watched'. Um, not by them. Period. Not by anyone here, not by Jeff, not by people that don't work for the parks. I'm not saying that if you see someone doing something specifically wrong that you dont' report it. Heck, if I see someone trying to front me in line, I've been *known* to take matters into my own hands (and arms and legs). But to go to parks and post on a site that you're being warned? If I were a Park official, I'd very quickly run and tell the ASO to mind their business. I've seen far too many cases of 'vigilants' screwing up something and making it far worse.
In fact, by 'threatening' parks, enthusiasts, and the like (and I'm not going by what I've heard from trusted sources, but simply what they post on their website), they make things for all of us harder. Well, they could if they were taken seriously, or until they do something 'proactive' in a park to cause problems. I've seen some of the stuff he has posted, and it could very well border on illegal libel.
Basically, they aren't helping in their actions. If he really wanted to help, the website would not only be more professional, they would never, ever ask the parks for anything that could be considered a 'perk'. They also wouldn't care who was teaching the park CPR or first response, but would be motioning for it to happen regardless of who got the contract.
I would actually contact them, but I know moosh, I trust moosh, and I owe him a lot of gratitude for his hospitality whilst I was in L.A., and hope I can one day repay it. If he gets a snotty little response from a very well worded, well thought out letter like that, then I doubt very seriously they'd be very nice to me either.
I hope they continue to go to parks and events. In fact, if they see something going wrong, they should report it. To the proper authorities. But blabbering about it on the internet doesn't do any good. I mean, c'mon. If it did, Six Flags wouldn't be in debt, they'd have SFWoA, and they'd have the best run parks in the industry.
Barry said:
A discussion I had with someone at PKI recently went something like this: "Yeah, in the not-too-distant, we're going to be seeing a lot more undercover park patrol guys--any unsafe riding, any threatening gestures to other park guests, anything remiss at all in terms of a guest's aberrant behavior, and the guest will suddenly find himself escorted to the front of the park. . .and disappear."
This is what I'm talking about. If in fact Barry was speaking with an ASO member or something similar (not sure if that was the implication or not), and they did say something even similar to that, it bothers me. I may be mis-reading what Barry is saying, but if he was talking to a non-park employee that said that, and they ever, in a million, billion, trillion years put their hands on me, they'd get a nice black eye (maybe 2), and a nice mark on their criminal records, as I would press charges to the fullest extent of the law because they were deciding what is 'safe riding'.
I'm still debating on weather or not I will continue to hold my arms up, as I know some people have opted not to, and as an enthusiast, that may be something I dont' want to do so as not to present a bad image, as some parks do not even allow that in their marketing material, but if someone that doesn't work for the park tries to 'escort me out' because I held my hands up, that would be their first, worst and last mistake. If a park employee were to do it, that would be different. Basically, the only person/people to say what does or doesn't constitue 'safe riding' is the mfg. of the ride and the park. Any one else can kiss my pale white bottom.
Still, I can't wait to hear their report of CAC, and hope they have fun at Fall Affair.
Tekno sayd:
I would actually contact them, but I know moosh, I trust moosh, and I owe him a lot of gratitude for his hospitality whilst I was in L.A., and hope I can one day repay it. If he gets a snotty little response from a very well worded, well thought out letter like that, then I doubt very seriously they'd be very nice to me either.
I agree completely. The comment that Moosh got in reply from the ASO guys was completely and totally uncalled for. I was very disappointed that they would respond to somebody that I had spoken highly of on numerous occasions.
Back to Sam Marks, take a look at one of his emails that he sent to the ASO:
From: Sam Marks
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 5:20 AM
To: ASO
Subject: FAQs are a JOKE not going to Holiday World?
I'm sure glad you chicken ****s aren't going to the Coaster Buzz event at Holiday World?
BTW once again you dodge the bullet on how you operate, and the FAQ you put up is more than enough info for parks to completely dismiss you as a serious operation. I mean COME ON! taking injury reports from the public? LOL
Your gathered info will be laughed at by anyone that sees it. cause all you need to be a SAFETY ADVOCATE is a working knowledge of how to send an e-mail hahaha
You might as well get into the food idustry and start rating highways. that makes as much sense as what you're doing.
If you are so freakin serious, why aren't YOU registered for IAAPA, IAAPA is the #1 place you could get information and ideas on how to scentifically gather the info your anonymous flunkies are providing.
This is representative of the 40 some emails Sam has sent to the ASO since around May. Most of them contained more profanity and all of them were insulting and harrassing.
This is why Sam has no credibility to me in this discussion.
In fact, I take ASO far more seriously than Sam Marks, for what that is worth.
- Joe, who's not getting into this like some of y'all are, but just wanted to point something out
STALKERS!
Do they plan on being at PPP?
Clint, we may have to get temporary restraining orders for our private event in December. :-)
-Tina
*** Edited 9/28/2005 2:23:16 PM UTC by coasterqueenTRN***
Talk about opening up a can of whoop ass. ;-) I already feel sorry for them. :-o
We can always invite them to join us for lunch or a round of go-karts. I am sure that alone will send them running for their lives. ;-)
-Tina
Drink more Kool-Aid, John. The morons have absolutely zero credibility as experts of anything.
Michael Darling said:
Their big push right now is to improve response times in the event of Bad Things (TM) at parks.
And yes, what they're doing could be construed as libel, and trust me when I say they're going to get sued. You can say whatever you want in America, but be prepared for the consequences. I know of at least one park/company that is planning to put the smack down.
Remember, the only way that you can beat a libel suit is to claim that the information you published was public, that it was in fact true, or prove that it was your opinion. If you say a park is unsafe, you sure as hell better be able to prove it in court, or the lawyers will take your house. This is Media Law 101.
Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog
Personally, I'd leave ASO alone, even *mentioning* them gives them some additional credibility...which in this case still amounts to VERY little...:)
Nothing from nothing leaves nothing, but nothing added to nothing still gets you....ASO.
But after hearing they've asked for personal gain? Sorry. That just really puts them on a crap list.
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