Young male reportedly shot in Carowinds parking lot

Incoming "security theatre doesn't stop anything" arguments.

It was outside the park so metal detectors wouldn't have worked. Someone in a car drove up and shot the kid.

^^^Exactly.

Not sure if you're trying to use that for your typical security theater argument, but it proves that, yet again, precautions at the front gate work.

This happened at the bus pickup where someone drove by and shot at someone else. Basically a drive by.

And the shooter was apprehended.

I never understand what you're trying to argue, or why.

Tekwardo said:

... it proves that, yet again, precautions at the front gate work.

This happened at the bus pickup where someone drove by and shot at someone else. Basically a drive by.

And the shooter was apprehended.

Color me confused. You acknowledge it was a drive-by shooting outside the park gates, but say it proves the precautions at the front gate work. How would security theater at the gate have prevented a shooting in the parking lot by people who were never in the park?

Jeff said:
I never understand what you're trying to argue, or why.

I can't teach comprehension, so...

It's a discussion forum. That's the Why.

slithernoggin said:

Tekwardo said:

... it proves that, yet again, precautions at the front gate work.

This happened at the bus pickup where someone drove by and shot at someone else. Basically a drive by.

And the shooter was apprehended.

Color me confused. You acknowledge it was a drive-by shooting outside the park gates, but say it proves the precautions at the front gate work. How would security theater at the gate have prevented a shooting in the parking lot by people who were never in the park?

It wouldn't. Like the first poster, I expected you and Thabto to claim that this is another failure of 'security theater' being ineffective. The shooter left the park after involving himself in an argument a bunch of teens were having and came back to do a drive by.

I was predicting what intamin was, so I preemptively posted after you agreed.

Tekwardo said:

I expected you and Thabto to claim that this is another failure of 'security theater' being ineffective.

If they claimed it's a failure of security theater being ineffective, doesn't that mean it was effective?

;)

He entered the park without his gun, got involved in an argument, left the park, got his gun and shot someone in the parking lot. Security theater has nothing to do with this.

The fact that he had to leave to get his gun instead of shooting someone inside the park would show otherwise.

Somebody got shot. Security theater at the gate did nothing to prevent that.

That's not the point of security at front gates. By that reasoning, police are useless because a crime occurred. So let's get rid of them as well.

The fact that the person who committed the crime had to do it outside of the parks gates and was prevented from doing it inside the park where the argument started proves that the measures in place worked to keep violent crime from happening in the park.

The point of front gate security is not and has never been to stop crime. The point is to deter crime from happening inside the gate. And it was obviously effective in this instance.

Tekwardo said:

It wouldn't. Like the first poster, I expected you and Thabto to claim that this is another failure of 'security theater' being ineffective.

I am done with arguing about security theater so there won't be any more posts from me on the subject for a while. I am just going to agree to disagree.

Tekwardo said:

That's not the point of security at front gates. By that reasoning, police are useless because a crime occurred. So let's get rid of them as well.

Police officers are extremely useful because they are trained professionals, with legal authority to detain or arrest people.

Low paid staff wearing security costumes at park (or arena, or ballpark, or stadium, etc) entrances with no authority to detain miscreants, on the other hand, are there for show. Nothing more.

At Ohio Stadium, where they admit 100,000+ on game day Saturday, there are many gates with many entrances across each gate. The checkers, who look like moms and dads, look at bags (when they were allowed, this season that's changed) and wand each ticket holder. I've never once felt like those people should or would be responsible for my safety at the event.
However, behind those people are policemen and/or highway patrolmen. At least one at each gate. They watch each person entering The Shoe. I'm always confident that if a checker should encounter trouble of any kind that the proper authorities are just a shout or signal away.

What turns security into theater is the absolute lack of a proper authority. But there would be no sense in employing those men and women to personally greet each customer. I've noticed many times that at the gates of a park that a real uniformed officer is nearby and ready to respond or intervene if the once-in-a-blue-moon situation should arise.

Also, don't certain parks have their own legitimate police force? I could have sworn it was Cedar Point that has a privately paid real police presence in the park. I know for a fact Dorney has some pretty discreet but highly trained enforcement and nifty facial recognition software...security theater may or may not be exactly effective, but there's something backing it up.

Cedar Point has its own police department.

RCMAC said:

What turns security into theater is the absolute lack of a proper authority.

Exactly. In my experience, for what it's worth, there aren't police officers on duty at the gate in parks I've been to. (I don't "get" sports, so I don't go to arenas or stadiums :-) and can't speak to those)

Yes, Cedar Pont has its own police force, authorized by the Ohio legislature -- so it's not exactly private. They're police officers recognized by the state. Walt Disney World has the legal authority to have a police force (WDW does have its own fire department) but chooses to have the local county police forces handle matters.

Bunky666 said:

....security theater may or may not be exactly effective, but there's something backing it up.

To me, what's backing security theater up is much more effective than the security theater.