X's problems

Thursday, October 18, 2001 8:05 AM
The first time I saw the video of the factory test for the 4th dimension this is what I thought.

If the distance between the running rails and the rails which control the rotation is not precisely maintained, the seats will tend to rock fore-and-aft throughout the ride.  You can see this happening (in the video) when the seats invert before the first dive.  At low speeds, (like in the factory test) the rocking would not be so noticeable but at higher speeds it would cause a riders head to bounce off of the head rests.   Not only would this vibration be extremely uncomfortable, it would have to cause incredible wear on the mechanics of the train.  Imagine the stress on the bearings at the pivot points.  Plus, it makes sense that this problem would only get worse as the ride ages.  I just hope Arrow dosen't have another Bat on their hands.

Does anyone agree/disagree with this?

*** This post was edited by jimster on 10/18/2001. ***

Thursday, October 18, 2001 8:39 AM
The entire mechanism works against a GIANT torsion spring. It has to, there is not really another way to do this. Hence that spring keeps the precise alignment you would need. Rocking is more a function of how they damped the oscilllations of that spring, and if they've learned anything from the Bat, they have taken care of this...

In short, for the design to work you need significant preload between the rails, so "not being aligned right" is not really an issue. Sorry.

Thursday, October 18, 2001 9:03 AM
Comatose.  I agree that a GIANT torsion spring would dampen any rocking due to any 'slop' in the mechanism.  But, that's not what I'm talking about.  Let me explain.  Let's assume that the train is on a straightaway.  Assuming that the running rails are perfectly straight .  If there is any  +/- variation in the elevation of the rails which control the tilt, the seats will rock.  After all, that is how the system works. 

Don't get me wrong, I hope the ride is a success.  I just cant imagine that a mechanical system like this can provide for a very smooth or reliable ride.

Thursday, October 18, 2001 9:22 AM
i dont belive x has major problems . i think it will open in a feww weeks
Thursday, October 18, 2001 9:27 AM
I think your concerns are valid, however I would have to assume that the engineers would take the dimensional variation of the track to track distance into account. The magic word we're talking about here is HYSTERESIS.
Like the steering system on any good car, I'm sure that X's seat rotation mechanism will have an adequate amount of hysteresis (think on-center feel) built in to compensate for the variation.
An easy way to demostrate this is go drive your car down a straight road. Now, put very minimal side to side steering inputs into the wheel. You'll notice that your car will probably stay straight (unless you have a super aggressive sports car ala S2000). As you add more input, you'll notice a point at which your inputs will actually move the car left or right. This is where your inputs are overcoming the hysteresis built into the steering system.
I bet X's seat rotation system could compensate for at least a variation of +/- 1/8 inch between the rails.
Irregardless, I can't wait to ride it!!!


"Just remember, wherever you go, there you are." - Buckaroo Banzai

Thursday, October 18, 2001 10:14 AM

EchoVictor said:
I bet X's seat rotation system could compensate for at least a variation of +/- 1/8 inch between the rails.
Irregardless, I can't wait to ride it!!!

I completely agree with you except for ONE thing:
Irregardless is not a real word. It is a double negative. Regardless means without regard to (what you really wanted to say). Irregardless is a word that many mistakenly believe to be correct usage in formal style, when in fact it is used chiefly in nonstandard speech. It has met with a blizzard of condemnation for being an improper yoking of irrespective and regardless and for the logical absurdity of combining the negative ir- prefix and -less suffix in a single term. It has been considered a blunder for decades and will probably continue to be so.   ---Dictionary.com
Just gotta get my grammer kicks in  :)
Cant wait to ride X when its ready. I would REALLY appreciate an official SF announcement as to what the ACTUAL delay is, so we can all stop speculating and relying on unconfirmed rumors. Remember, people thought DejaVu wouldnt be open till AFTER October and suddenly ,BOOM, they announced the opening in August. The usual protocol is that they annouce the opening 1week before MEDIA DAY (usually WED-FRI, with the ride officially opening on FRI or SAT). Each WED-FRI I eagerly await word. Still Waiting..............
My other car is a Giovanola!

Thursday, October 18, 2001 10:43 AM
Jimster, I understand that you have concerns, and I'd love to be able to make a valid comment, but alas, I've never seen the video.

What am I getting to?

(Could you give me a link? Pretty please? :))

"They were rong, very rong." -Coolbrojoe

Thursday, October 18, 2001 10:56 AM

There should be a video on here.

Thursday, October 18, 2001 12:26 PM
Oh, you meant in the straightaway. Right, then I have to agree with you, It is easy enough to compensate for, if you were to make your link mechanism compliant. Of course, I think compliant actuators solve EVERY problem known to man, but that is ny research and not arrow's coasters.


Basically make a preload of, say, twenty five pounds (numbers for no reason) that keeps you horizontal. Then if your actuator has a spring constant of 50 lb/in, you can have up to half of an inch of runout before you start to turn.

I could draw it if this isn't clear




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