Worlds of Adventure adds metal detectors

The day I start seeing all parks installing 30 foot high concrete (or other non porous material) walls around the entire perimeter of the park is the day I will agree that metal detectors are necessary and effective. There are just way too many ways BESIDES THE GATES that "bad things" can get into the park. Anyone could go and toss a gun, knife or whatever else they needed over the fence. Bad guys proved on September 11 that no metal detector is going to stop them. All of those hijackers passed through metal detectors before boarding and they still did the damage they wanted to.

I'd much rather see police, uniformed or not, throughout the park rather than standing at the gate staring at a metal detector. You're not going to stop someone from getting a weapon into the park if they want it bad enough, but you can stop or at least limit the damage they can do with it by having plenty of security throughout the park (more close to where Joe Bad Guy is going to do his thing), rather than mindlessly telling people to take their keys out of their pockets all day. Security throughout the park also can deal with other problems such as line jumping, drunk guests, etc.

-Matt
2001 Magnum Crew *** This post was edited by MDOmnis on 6/7/2002. ***

Even though metal detectors are obviously a great idea for parks, they can be annoying.

Last year at SFGAM we came in and I was the only one stopped by the metal detector, I was just like, great.......

The metal detector went off in my cough.....area.....cough...... so the lady made me empty my pockets, turns out, it still went off. I thought, oh great, she's going to make me take off my friggin pants, my friends were all making jokes about it, I won't go into detail, I'm sure you're capable of imagining them.

Turns out all it was was my stupid belt buckle, took us 5 minutes to figure that out, the metal lady wasn't happy.

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Welcome back riders, how was your ride...Enjoy your day, here at Cedar Point, America's roller coast.

wahoo skipper, the reason I don't think anything like 9-11 will happen at amusement park is because terrorist hate us true, but they hate the government more. So they will try for the government before they try for an amusement park. If they were trying to kill a lot of people on 9-11, they would have hit a public venue like a baseball game or something which holds way more than WTC. It is all govermental.

Now to go back to metal detectors, I think they are good for parks. I like the comfort of knowing that if I accidently run into somebody and spill their pop they won't go crazy on me and pull out a knife or gun. I like that comfort persoanlly.

The only disadvantage I see to metal dectors is they go off on everything. Every time I have been to SFEG this year it has gone off on me cause of my cell phone, but I feel the 30 extra seconds is worth it.

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Wow. My first thought upon reading this was, "why is this news when so many other parks already have them, and the ones that don't will probably be adding them soon" I'm shocked that this is such a big deal to so many.

This causes what, an extra 5 minutes delay or so on entry to the park? And for what? A whole lot of safety. As Jeremy said, when we were younger, people didn't think about bringing guns into parks (or schools for that matter). Now they do. I'd rather they had them than not.

Especially when parks like Cedar Point not only don't have them, but they didn't even bother to check my hippouch when I entered. Neither did PKI. Enough so that we were joking about my "packing" on the way into the park (packing my camera that is). Not real good on their part if you ask me. And some poor unarmed security guy isn't going to do much of anything to stop someone with a gun if they want to use it.

Thank you Six Flags for thinking about my safety.

George

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Sometimes it's up. Sometimes it's down.
But with God, life is one thrill ride that you'll never regret being on.

Firstly, why the complaints? 5 minutes extra wait could be the difference between being shot, stabbed, pipe-bombed (remember Atlanta Olympics) etc. You'll say, It'll never happen to me or it'll never happen here ... to that I say, have you forgetten 9-11 so easily. It can happen there!

Also, I read above that only Government offices/buildings are at risk from terrorists .... WTF? When was the WTC ever a Government building? Terrorists will target high-profile, highly-visible targets to make a point. The number of people who die, American or otherwise, will not deter a committed terrorist who are, in most cases, willing to die for their cause. Disney, Universal, Knotts, CP, SF parks are all high profile potential targets as are Sports stadiums and arenas and any other place where the masses congregate.

I'll admit Park Secuirty for most cases is weak because in the toss-up between budget and security, budget will always win. Metal detectors instead of a security presence costs a whole lot less and reinforces the publics and companies perception that secuirty has been addressed. Case and point, Disney Security, a few years ago, a police force unto itself. Now they have been reduced to a diminitive, neutered vision of its former self complete with patron-friendly Purple shirts. :(

Bag searches, metal detectors, wand searches (which has been common place in LA for ages) are nothing new. The focus for park security should be to protect its Guests and Employees and not the new front-line against terrorism as most companies are marketing them to be.

Be thankful for some security while in your respective Parks this Summer. There are far worse places you could be.

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*** This post was edited by The Legend on 6/8/2002. *** *** This post was edited by The Legend on 6/8/2002. ***

"I think it is more a reflection of US society and it's gun culture that means metal detectors need to be installed. It has nothing to do with terrorism. In England, you find metal detectors at airports, and perhaps major government buildings. To my knowledge they exist nowhere else, and I certainly don't feel any less safe."

The assumption that guns are the problem is completely false. It's common knowledge that there are more deaths by fire arms in the UK per capita than there are in the US. Fact is, studies now show that your gun control laws are failing. It has little to do with gun control and more to do with morons carrying knives.

http://www.guncontrolvictories.com/gc_ukgc.html

http://www.jpfo.org/GCA_68.htm
*** This post was edited by Buzz Head on 6/8/2002. ***

I haven't got any stats to back this up, but IMO to say that there are more gun deaths in the UK than in the US is simply laughable. It is true that the UK is currently seeing an increase in petty crime, but it is also true to say that most of this involves knives and not guns.

I accept that it is the same situation in the US - that you are far more likely to find people armed with knives rather than guns.

If there is something in your pocket or bag that you would rather not expose then leave in your car.

SFGadv has had metal detectors since i have been going their in 1993. Dorney Park doesn't and ever since last year I have been wondering what was going in the park. Well last year working at the Indy Car I found out. The way the seats are if you have loose pockets and sweat pants basic everything will fall out. After the ride was over my superviser said he has seen guns, knife, ect left behind. I wish dorney park would add meter detector for the safely of their guest and employees. I'll tell you when you you have people who we won't let on the ride becuase of height, size, line jumping, ect they get really pissed even if their was a 3 minute wait. I only worked at dorney for a month and in a mouth I was glad of all the guest have gotten pissed at me haven't a gun or knife.

People - it's not that we are complaining about the detectors, but rather just questioning their ability to provide real safety. Don't talk about 9/11 as your case for metal detectors because all of those hijackers passed through metal detectors and they still were able to hijack the planes. The fact is that if people want to do damage, they are going to do it - metal detectors or not. Sure, they might stop some grandpa from bringing in his pocket knife that he was probably going to use to pick his teeth anyway, but they're not going to stop anyone who really wants to comit a crime. Wake up and realize that metal detectors only provide a "sense" of safety and not actually anything more.

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-Matt
2001 Magnum Crew

What is so wrong with the metal detectors. That is why other countries hate us. We have such a fairy tale view of ourselves thinking that we are immune to any attack and if we install metal detectors, then the terrorists win. That's hogwash. Times have changed and we need to all adapt to the change. I have no qualms about someone checking me or my bags out for security sakes.

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I am here...

9/11 has absolutely zero to do with the use of metal detectors at amusement parks. Not only were they used before at the grand majority of urban parks, but they have zero to do with terrorists. They're there to prevent everyone from gun-carrying Texans to gang members from bringing weapons into the park.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com, Sillynonsense.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"

Matt: I think I have said this before, but I'm going to say it again anyway: Before 9-11, pocket knives, box cutters and the like were LEGAL to take on airplanes. In all likelyhood, the metal dectors picked this items up. However, the POLICY was to let these items on (apparently the thinking was that Grandpa would simply be whittling a wooden toy for junior).

Blame the POLICIES for 9-11, not any fault of the machinery.
lata,
jeremy
--who agrees that the detectors should be hedged with vigilant security

Metal detectors are in place to protect the patrons and employees from each other. Any other reason is ridiculous.

2Hostyl: yes, I do remember you saying that. We don't really disagree on that point. We also agree that vigilant security is needed.

However, it is my opinion that more vigilant security is money better spent than money spent on machines and the staffing needed to mindlessly watch them all day. I feel that if someone wants to do damage with a gun, knife, or something else at an amusement park, they are not going to take it through the main gate where the metal detectors are, they are going to toss it over a fence somewhere and it's in (see comment about 30 foot concrete wall).

I agree with Jeff that 9/11 had nothing to do with the use of metal detectors in parks previously and shouldn't now. Unfortunately, 9/11 is being pointed to as a reason as to why they are necessary. My point is that they necessary to the same degree now as they were before 9/11 - to provide a sense of security in areas where people would otherwise feel uncomfortable (usually urban parks). Saying they are necessary in all cases and that they make things SOO MUCH safer is rediculous. Anyone who goes to a park with the idea of doing damage is going to get it done - metal detectors or not. I don't see why an amusement park is any different than a mall. If anything, a park should be more secure already because you have to pay to get in! Malls by me don't have metal detectors and I don't hear people crying that they feel unsafe. I'd venture to guess that the security at most parks is better than the security at malls.

There is a difference between perceived security and actual security. Metal detectors provide perceived security, but they are lacking in their ability to provide actual security. They are a useful tool in some cases, but they really don't make me feel any safer.

I'm not concerned about privacy or anything like that as I usually take very little with me to a park. If I have to wait in a short line to get in, so be it. That's not the issue I have. It's just that I question whether metal detectors make things that much safer.

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-Matt
2001 Magnum Crew

I hate to think what the people in this thread would think if they knew I was walking around Cedar Point last week with not one, but TWO knives on my person...one of them, a Leatherman PST, carried in a marked holster attached to my belt for the whole world to see....

Anyway, I was in a Major Amusement Park recently. A man walked through the metal detector without setting it off, then had to stand there for five minutes while the security guard poked his wife's wallet (one of those big purse-size wallets with a zillion little c
ompartments. I wondered why he hadn't thought to just drop that into the pocket of his cargo pants. Because they're searching bags, not pockets. If the detector doesn't beep, nothing gets looked at. Guess what: My penknife never set off the airport metal detectors back when it was legal to carry on-board. As a result, all this aggravation is about as useful as the screening I went through back in November at a park, where I was asked if I was carrying any knives and was told to check them if I was. I did. But if I hadn't said anything, I'd have just carried 'em in. Ever see Beverly Hills Cop III? Axel gets a full pat-down search when he gets to the park but still manages to have a BFG available to him.
So adding metal detectors and bag searches is demonstrably not going to make a big difference in park security but it will aggravate a lot of people.

There is another issue that bothers me. If a park wants to search my personal property as I enter for...whatever, it really isn't a big deal so long as they warn me of the search. If they don't want me to bring something into the park, it's fine for them to say, "You can't bring this into the park." But what particularly bothers me is that I don't know what the park's standard is for the search. They do not identify what it is they are looking for, and consequently, I don't see how they can possibly know when they've found what they are looking for if they don't know what it is they're looking for. And if they do know, why don't they inform us? If it were a law enforcement search, it would be unconstitutional if conducted in the manner used by these parks.

Personally, I think what they're really looking for is food and drink items, but that's only a theory...

I went to WoA yesterday and I didn't know they had metal detectors up, so me and my brothers girlfriend walked right past them, not noticing or being stopped. We then had to wait for my brother to come through though.

The Great Escape (also owned by Six Flags) had metal detectors installed on Friday. To add a humorous note to this topic, it happened to be the day of the Americade motorcycle event. Bikers, chains, studs, pin collections, the things never stopped beeping.

RideMan: Now, with the "anti-bookbaggers" saying "Why do you need a bookbag @ an amusment park", I think a better question is "Why do you need a KNIFE at an amusement park?" IMO, the only reason to have a knife is if you anticipate the need for cutting something. I cannot imagine what one would feel the need to cut at an amusement park other than maybe food. But since you're not totting a Ginsu....

BTW: If you look in the "Park Map and Guide" for such parks as SFoT, SFFT, SFA, and SFGAdv they *do* say what they are screening for and even suggest that you leave such items in the car.

And the big difference between an amusement park and a police search is that an amusement park is Private Property; different rules apply. But you DO have the choice to not go there.

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Besides, if we were really shutting down people we disagreed with, would Jeremy (2Hostyl) still be around? :) I think not. - Jeff 1/24/02

Several times this season I've wished I had one of my knives with me at PKI just to scrape the chewing gum off of my shoes......

Actually, in general, if I need a knife, bottle opener, screwdriver, or punch, I pull the swiss knife out of my pocket. If I need a pair of pliers, a real Phillips driver, or a pair of scissors, I reach for the Leatherman.

As for why carry--
There is certain equipment that I normally carry with me. Eyeglasses, watch, pen, keys, loose change, wallet, 6' tape measure, Swiss knife, Leatherman. It's a normal assortment of stuff that for the most part I always have with me. When I need it, I expect it to be there.

Now, most of the time I leave the Leatherman behind when I visit a park (last week was an exception...and I used it twice before 10am...) and I often leave the Swiss in the car so that I don't lose it. When I do that is usually when I discover that I should have brought it along... :)

With that out of the way...the only reason I mentioned the police search is that at Geauga Lake there was some comment someplace (I forget whether it was a flyer or a sign) about the park possibly handing prohibited items over to law enforcement. If I were carrying some illegal item and the park found it during their search, it would be fine for them to say, "You can't bring that in here." But for them to turn that item over to the local Sheriff would, in my non-legal opinon, constitute an illegal search and seizure.

But let's be honest about these bag searches. They don't say it, but you know what they are really looking for, don't you? They aren't looking for weapons or contraband. They're looking for FOOD.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Dave, SFWoA hands out a flyer stating the use of metal detection and the quote about handing prohibited items over to the authorities as soon as you pay your $7 parking fee. So that's probably where you saw it. Nice to see some people actually do read the materials that are given to guests upon entering a park! ;)

ProgRay