Woman dies riding Texas Giant at Six Flags Over Texas

Just for information:
No, there is no test seat for NTG.
No, they haven't been doing continuous loading this season.
The panel can definitely see which lights are green (the console operator routinely looks down and says "recheck row X") and I have to assume it won't dispatch without the restraints locked.

And I can't even fathom how you can expect a minimum wage, seasonal, teenager to make a judgement call about the safety of a ride designed years ago by someone half a world away being ridden by tens of thousands of people they've never met. I don't see how it can be done.

Sounds like we may be headed toward OTSRs for all or a combination lap bar and seat belt. How many of us would put our lives into a 17 year old's hands in any other situation other than going to an amusement park? I guess you can say that about lifeguards but your own skill is the determining factor moreso than a lifeguard's ability to come get you.

Is there a proper solution, though? Honestly, for the grief people have given them, I think Cedar Point has the right idea with Top Thrill Dragster and Millennium Force. The seatbelt may in many ways be pointless as a restraint, but it's a great measure of whether a person will legitimately fit.

Frankly, I think that's the most ideal solution. Anything else would likely result in excessively complex restraint systems that will hurt capacity or neutered rides that couldn't throw you eve if they wanted to do so. I hate to say it, but if people want safety, it's in everybody's interests to stop being so sensitive and accept the fact that riding roller coasters isn't for everybody.

To the point about a 17-year old Ride Op not being responsible, though, I think that holds true unless blatant negligence is evident. If the witness statements are to be believed and if the Ride Op did a proper check, though, then I think the employee is absolved of responsibility. You can't expect them to know whether a particular body type will be properly accommodated without some sort of indicator (the seatbelt in the CP example).

Ultimately, I think that if the Ride Operator can prove that the restraint was checked properly, the park can prove that the indicator gave them the go-ahead (and if a test seat was available, so much the better for the park), and Gerstlauer can prove that the restraint didn't fail, this is just a horribly unfortunate accident with nobody to really blame. I hate to sound so passé about it, but this could be one of those gray-area situations.

In some situations, I'd be okay with it. Like if I were going Scuba diving and the guy who was checking my tank was a 17 year old kid who worked for the scuba company and he said I was okay to go, I'd jump right in.

Again, I think putting any kind of blame or responsibility on the operator is misguided. A 50 year old management type or a 40 year old mechanic and probably even the ride's designer himself would have dispatched that train.

sirloindude said:

...it's in everybody's interests to stop being so sensitive and accept the fact that everything isn't for everybody.

FTFY...and turned it into a bit of advice that would help the world in general in the process. :)

Of course I wouldn't absolve kids of blatant negligence or intentional misconduct. I'm embarassed to say that I let employees ride some rides in improper manners when I was a young ride op. If someone had died as a result of that then I would expect to be punished.

The ride operators are only going to be able to distinguish if a lap bar is resting against the guest's body and if any seat belts, etc. are fastened. They're paid a low wage with little training to check the restraints as fast as possible while also ensuring other safety precautions are followed. To fully rely on them to make a call as to whether every single guest (of the hundreds and thousands they see each day) is safe on an individual basis is over the top. If the lap bar comes down and the meticulously engineered ride says all is well, the ride op isn't trained, or paid, to say otherwise. They're trained to raise their thumb and repeat the routine once again.

I see quite often that it isn't always "fat" people who are unable to ride attractions. It's also taller than average, or more muscular than average people. It seems to me very likely in this case the restraint was not designed in a way that secured the lap of certain body types or was allowed to rest too high on the rider's torso in some cases. Maybe the fix is as simple as adding seat belts and telling the computer all lap bars need to be a couple inches lower at the very most. Of course this is all still speculation until all the evidence comes out and investigations are complete.

My only issue with the ride op in this instance is that if in fact the woman said she didn't feel safe, I don't think the ride ops should be allowed to say "No, you're going to be okay because the computer says you are". Ultimately, I'm responsible for my safety, and if I feel unsafe and state that to an employee, they better either let me off, or let me reposition the restraint.

Tekwardo said:

My only issue with the ride op in this instance is that if in fact the woman said she didn't feel safe, I don't think the ride ops should be allowed to say "No, you're going to be okay because the computer says you are". Ultimately, I'm responsible for my safety, and if I feel unsafe and state that to an employee, they better either let me off, or let me reposition the restraint.

In my experiences we were instructed to tell wary riders that all was well, they were safe, and the ride would only last x amount of time; THEN ask them are you absolutely sure you want off. 99% of the time, unless the person was hysterical, they said OK and continued. In those rare cases the person said they did want off we would release their restraint, or if the ride was already in motion it would be stopped. My point is in general anything that hurts capacity is frowned upon so unless a safety issue arises or a guest demands to be let off, once restraints are locked or the ride is in motion it is not stopping.

I agree though that if the person was adamant about getting off and they were essentially forced to ride than that is another problem all together.

Tek, I agree, but only to a point. My main thing is that the Ride Operator knows the restraint system and the ride in general better than a first-time rider. I do think that the exact wording of the discussion is crucial here, because it'd be one thing if she legitimately asked to be let off. If she simply wanted some clarification, however, then I think the response from the Ride Op was appropriate.

Edit: Capitalize beat me to it. ;)

Shocking news! Edward Markey is taking advantage of this opportunity. He was sworn in just a couple of days before the accidents go figure.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-six-flags-texas-roller-coaster-20130722,0,438955.story

I have to go back to the idea that the Ride Op assured her it was ok, because the system green-lighted telling him/her it was ok.

I'm guessing (someone correct/verify for me here) that the ops are trained to get a green light, not visually make decisions about who can and can't ride.

If you pay me minimum wage, and explain to me that "green means go"...

You CANNOT expect me to make "executive decisions" that override your mulitmillion-dollar ride/computer system that was built specifically to remove that authority from me...

Lord Gonchar said:

I have to go back to the idea that the Ride Op assured her it was ok, because the system green-lighted telling him/her it was ok.

I'm guessing (someone correct/verify for me here) that the ops are trained to get a green light, not visually make decisions about who can and can't ride.

True in my experiences. The ride attendant's don't make any big decisions, if big decisions need to be made on the spot a superior is called.

My life is in the hands of 17-18yr olds making minimum wage. Everyday. Ask any E1-E2 in the military how much they take home? Granted they are well trained and very supervised.

Age isn't a excuse where responsibility is needed. It also isn't a indicating factor on how responsible one can be.

To that end though, I get what you mean Gonch, They aren't paid well for the job they do.

By the size of this woman there is no way she wasn't stapled in, because i bet it took 2 ops to push the lapbar down enought to turn the green light on. I see that happening everyday at sfne on bizarro. IMO an ops should not be allowed to touch the lapbar only to make sure its secured. If the person can't get the lapbar in to position he should be asked to leave the ride.

Hoverboards don't work on water said:...but we all need to start taking some personal responsibility and pay attention to our surroundings a bit better. Maybe if people were more focused on being in the moment and not live tweeting their lives then companies would not have to treat everyone as if they are 5 years old.

While i agree we all have to assume some level of personal responsibility, knowing the specs and restraint capacities of public roller coasters is not one of those responsibilities. If the park let her go ahead and ride, they should be prepared to keep her safe. If not, they should say flat out "You're too large and can't ride". Maybe someone didn't want hurt anyone's feelings....no room for that with this type of stuff.

A short seat belt installed by the manufacturer would take the human element out of this.

But on the other side of the coin, how many millions (literally) of people have said, "I don't feel safe" and then had a perfectly safe, if not enjoyable ride. A person not feeling safe on a ride is kind of the point. I don't think it really a relevant fact here unless she presented it in a way that was different from the millions of other people who also don't feel safe.

Precisely. These articles presenting the victim as saying "I don't feel safe" make it sound as if she was screaming with her arms flailing demanding to be let off, while the evil pimple-faced ride ops dressed as grim reapers laughed and waved saying..."good luck!" as the ride was dispatched.

I'm 100% confident she presented herself as just another first-time rider about to conquer one of the world's newest thrills, which is status-quo. My lord, believe me, dealing with phobics, I'm sitting next to students in tears as the ride is dispatched...and that's called "therapy". :)

I also have to comment about what Sirloindude said about Cedar Point and the seatbelts; In short, I totally agree. That said, we live in a world where everyone expects every business to bend over backwards to match their needs, body type, disability, etc., and perhaps this is a cruel lesson in the fact that for some life experiences, your physiology may unfortunately make it impossible.

I can't ride Junior Gemini without my daughter. Should I sue?

gamerguy said:

By the size of this woman there is no way she wasn't stapled in, because i bet it took 2 ops to push the lapbar down enought to turn the green light on. I see that happening everyday at sfne on bizarro. IMO an ops should not be allowed to touch the lapbar only to make sure its secured. If the person can't get the lapbar in to position he should be asked to leave the ride.

I'm not trying to rude here but I'm in agreement here, not even Heather could've stapled her in alone.