Why no Beast clones?

Mamoosh:

I rode Drachen Fire once and never bothered to suffer the pain a second time. I first rode the Beast 21 years ago, and I still find it an enjoyable ride, especially at night. The Beast was overbraked the last time I rode it 2 years ago. It didn't seem quiteas impressive as it did when it was the fastest coaster in the world with the lonngest drop, but it was still a lot of fun.

You can't even photograph the ride in its entiriety. Charles Dinn even admitted in one program that they pulled a fast one over on Kings Island. Sure, Paramount has cloned other woodies--The Hurler, Rebel Yell/Thunder Road, and the Junior PTC's. But the Beast? Never going to happen.
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The word "definitely" is definitely the most misspelled word on the buzz.

They?

Charles Dinn did not design Beast. He just oversaw the construction team.

Credit one Mr, Al Collins with it folks. He is the one who did all the hard work and designing.

Beast is a monster. It is spread over 35 acres, a feat no other park dare match. Others have mentioned too that it is terrain specific. That is true and the cost to duplicate it is astronomical.

Actually I think the reason no other parks have pursued adding a terrain hugging monster woodie like Beast is.... the massive undertaking it would be. When Beast was built, it was a labor of love. It was the first time that a park committed to three years of design and development on a wood coaster addition. Prior, parks had just trusted the relitively few coasters designers that existed to come up with a design and get it built in a relatively short time frame. KI was the first to embrace wooden coaster building as an art form and sink the time, effort, people and money into it.

Beast was one of the first coasters that ushered in coaster memorabilia... t-shirts, I survived pins, and after ride photos. Every facet of the coaster was thought of and designed.

Because of the enormity of the project, so many hands involved in it's development, and unique requirements of it's location, Beast turned out completely different than first imagined.

Originally the ride was to be a copy of the defunct Coney Island Wildcat. And it's original name was to be "The Champion."

As far as Beast goes. If you compare it to today's computer driven, perfectly engineered scream machines, then the ride does leave something to be desired. But if you judge it by the times in which it was built, it is a mastepiece. Just think, no computer was used in designing it. If a section was built and did not run as expected... then it was just torn out and re-built. I still remain awestruck of how mammoth a project it must have been. Just try and put yourself in Al Collin's shoes and imgaine what his thoughts may have been the first time he walked through that desnse forrest thinking things like...."Hmmmm a tunnel might be nice here...."

Think of the joy and awe that coaster has produced and how safely it has operated. It is a real statement on the commitment and genius of the designers and builders. To give you an example of just how primitive the Beast is compared to day's coasters..... until this season, Beast's trims were not operated by computers, or hydraulics, or sensors etc. They operated for 23 years by maintenance checking speeds, and adding/removing weight (in the form of spare nuts and bolts) in a coffee can suspended on a metal wire below the skids. Bet you didn't know that ;-)

Beast is a one of a kind. Bottom line, I think parks have been smart enough to recognize that you can't compete with, or copy, Beast.

Shaggy

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Shaggy
A.K.A. John K.

Great Post Shaggy. The Beast is the best coaster and most unique coaster I have been on Hands Down. After the first hill the coaster just keeps going down. and after the brake run in the shed it just keeps picking up more and more speed. The other thing that stands out with this coaster is the way that it roars. It is loud when you are riding it. The designer was an absolute genius. No One should clone this coaster. It is a one of a kind and it should remain as such. For those that find this coaster to be dull and boring I say good Stay out of the line so that those that do love it can ride it more often without the wait.

*** This post was edited by Bmuskie on 4/26/2002. ***

Great post Shaggy! I did know a couple of those items, most notably "Champion" and the coffee can. Did I ever mention how unbelievably fun and informative the "behind-the-scenes tours" with Jeff Siebert were?

Coffee can? I thought sure I had seen a hand-winch hooked up to at least one set of brakes...

Although the coffee can does make perfect sense as a counterweight. I hope it had holes in the bottom to let the rainwater drain out!

My impression is that The Beast didn't have a grand design. They had some ideas for a coaster back in the woods, and they had all these elements they wanted to include, like the underground tunnel for the first drop, the tunnels, all that running around hugging the ground at the bottom of the ride. I wonder if the helix isn't there because they knew they would need another lift to bring the train back to the station after running all the energy out in the low section...but they wanted the ride to have an ending, so the giant helix was born. It sounds to me as though the ride sort of evolved to fit the property and the park...if a park wanted to build a ride like The Beast today the approach would be totally different, and so would the result.

'Course it would probably end up looking a lot like The Legend though... :)

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Shaggy, once again you make a great post. Thanks for sharing!

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- Peabody

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RideMan said:
It sounds to me as though the ride sort of evolved to fit the property and the park...

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That's how it happened. How many different designs were created for the beast before the final? I can't remember the exact number but it was an awful lot.

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If the shoe fits, find another one.

The design process was funny from what I heard. The designers kept on making it bigger and longer many times, and the suit that had to approve it didn't know what he was looking at and blindly OKed it. Does anyone have a more accurate bersion of the story?

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- Peabody

Rideman said: "Although the coffee can does make perfect sense as a counterweight. I hope it had holes in the bottom to let the rainwater drain out! "

Kind of explains how the brakes were lighter during rainstorms, and why it would often shut down in downpours huh?!

Shaggy

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Shaggy
A.K.A. John K.

Would you really want to clone a terrain coaster though? The great thing about terrain coasters is how they incorperate with their settings. If Boulder Dash was put on a flat plot of land it would look like a tame out and back coaster with two or three big drops. Think about in RCT, find a good terrain coaster that you like, then save the track design and rebuild it on a flat piece of lan. Real beautiful now, isn't it? Would the Thunderbolt at Kennywood be as good as it is without the ravine? Would Nemesis look as intreging sitting in Talon's space right now bare? If the Raven were out in the open, how frightning would it look then? Very little, and would look like a rather dull layout to some people, but it's not? Terrain coasters carry a specialty to their own park, and give you a thrill that the park can be known for and can't be experienced anywhere else.

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Lake Compounce-So Fresh and So Clean Clean

on reason it will never be cloned is it was made by KINGS ISLAND CONSTRUCTION COMPANY

In a interview about The Beast I was asked the question "why is The Beast so great?" I responded that of all the roller coasters that have been built wooden and steel that The Beast has never been cloned and hopefully it will stay that way as one of the few coasters that are not cloned.

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http://www.geocities.com/buckeye452000/RCTheaven
My RCT site

I think the Beast takes on such mythical status because of the way he runs at night. He is the most awesome, out of control freight train ever at night and it truly is an angelic experience.

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The Beast and Night, They go together like Peanut Butter and Jelly

I remember that at night they have flood lights in the back. But last year they were all broke, it was so great. It already is awesome but when the sun goes down its thrill almost doubles.

From the Discovery Channel's Wild Rides-Charles Dinn credited as Builder of The Beast "The reason it got so long and so high is because we kept submitting these drawings to our general manager who probably couldn't visualize what we were really submitting to him. And he would say "that looks good, that looks good." So we would just get bigger and bigger and it finally got to where it is today."

Challenge me again Shaggy?
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The word "definitely" is definitely the most misspelled word on the buzz.*** This post was edited by Intamin Fan on 4/29/2002. ***

*** This post was edited by Intamin Fan on 4/29/2002. ***

We have went through this before. Dinn did not design the Beast.

Here is the proof. LOL

http://www.coasterbuzz.com/forums/thread.asp?ForumID=11&TopicID=17199

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The Beast and Night, They go together like Peanut Butter and Jelly

Intamin Fan,

Challenge? Not sure why you took this personally, but if you insist...

The Discovery Channel was correct in referring to him as the "builder" of the Beast. He headed up the construction and maintenance team that built it. But there is a significant difference between building and designing.

Charles Dinn did not design the Beast, Al Collins did.

There are many different articles that exist on microfilm from the local news publications covering the design and construction of the Beast. Thanks to someone close to the source.... I was referred to a May 26th, 1979 article in the KY post that interviews Al Collins, the designer behind the Beast. In the article there is a photo of Mr. Collins alongside his plans and renderings for the Beast.

Mr Dinn's daughter, Denise Dinn Larrick of CCI, stated at a Legend construction tour that her Father, although a main point person in the Beasts construction, was not responsible for the design itself.

Also, PKI readily credits Mr. Collins as the designer and the man responsible for the final layout that is the Beast. Mr. Dinn, although an intrigal part of it's being added, is only noted as heading the construction team.

Finally, the next time you visit PKI, in the Beast's station the 25th Anniversary memory board is still present. Read through it. You will see Mr. Collins gets kudos for the Beast, and Mr. Dinn is mention nearly last in a long list of people including the likes of marketing folks etc that were a part of it's installation.

Shaggy

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Shaggy
A.K.A. John K.

*** This post was edited by Shaggy on 4/30/2002. ***

Take it personally? Damn right I did. If you read my original post, I used the word "they", which refers to a group of people, not one. I never once credited Mr. Dinn as the designer of the ride. Let's try actually reading what other people have written before pouncing on them, ok?
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The word "definitely" is definitely the most misspelled word on the buzz.

It's a rollercoaster bud, hardly something worth getting feathers ruffled over.

Sorry you internalized it, my point was to clarify the reason I believe that a clone of the Beast has or never will exist, not to alienate you.

But your absolutely correct in the fact that it was a team effort spearheaded by an amazingly talented man... Mr. Collins. The Beast would not exist if it were not for the patience of all involved. That patience and dedication simply does not exist at 99% of todays parks. That is why we will never see a clone or any coaster the likes of Beast again. I think some come close, such as Legend, but not nearly on the same scale.

However, it is pretty well known that in enthusiast circles Mr. Dinn is basically labelled as the man behind the Beast. It simply is not true. His statements of "we" probably speak for the entire group that all based their decisions on the advice and direction of the man essentially "in-charge" of the Beast's design.... Al Collins.

Haggling over "we" and "they" is hardly worth anymore of our time. But if I were the true designer of an amazing part of coastering, I would want people to know.

Shaggy

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Shaggy
A.K.A. John K.