why dont parks run coasters at full capasity?

Wow, did you all see that? Mark dub and I actually shared a common view.

Add this one to the "RC Rollback" Dave :)

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"To get into this head of mine, would take a monkey-wrench, and a lot of wine" Res How I Do

I realize that capacity isn't the only factor in this situation, but take a look at this example. There exists two parks in a very similar market - one that runs all their rides to full capacity (Cedar Point) and another that sees fit to run their rides at less than capacity (SFWOA) for whatever reason. Cedar Point is reporting an increase in attendance (above 2001, but still below 2000) while SFWOA has attendance that is so bad that they are cutting operating hours, cutting staff, and cutting the amount of lights they use. Which philosophy is better?

I disagree totally with the theory that having longer lines makes people stay in the park longer and spend more money. On a recent trip to SFNE, I arrived at 10 and left at 2 and had a grand total of two rides under my belt. I wasn't about to stay until 6 to get another two rides in! Also, I flat out refuse to spend money in a park that doesn't move their lines at a decent rate. I am much less thrifty at parks that bust their butts to move lines and I can run around all day doing different things and not baking in one queue for hours.

The maintenance issue doesn't really hold water, especially for parks up north that are seasonal. All trains are stripped down and rebuilt completely each winter. Also, preventative maintenance such as changing wheels, etc should be done at night. I can understand a year round park pulling a train to do what would be done during winter rehab in a northern park.

I think it is just a difference in philosophy. Personally, I have to believe that the costs incurred in extra maintenance and staffing to run at full capacity are far outweighed by the increased guest satisfaction and thus attendance, and increased food, game, and merchandise sales. Last time I checked CP was a gold mine and they "afford" to run everything to capacity... :)

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-Matt
2001 Magnum Crew

Well, your "do it at night" don't hold much water either. DLP has a maintenance unit dedicated to Space Mountain, that runs on 3 shifts, 24 hours a day. According to your logic, at 9 am, when the park opens, there should 5 trains running, with 14 cast members on position, add a few more for breaks and lunchs.

See, in the real world, its doesn't work that way. Sure, at 9 am-10 am, you have over a 1000 people running for Space Mountain, but by having a single station with 3 trains running, at 9:30 am, the station is empty, until the next rush happens (usually 10-11 am) where if the next shift ain't there yet (they start at either 10:30 am, 1:30 pm or 3:15 pm for the closing shift), what do you do? Let a 2 hours line build up? No, you call Star Tours (right near by) and ask if they have an extra CM's (cast member) to send and ask the bosses to come and open the second station (and add the fourth train). When all the CMs are there, you can add the fifth train and get rid of any line (I have a 60 minutes line shrink to 20 in 30 minutes)

That's the ideal way, but... let's say the night before, the zone 3 block brake (the one after the sidewinder) had timing problems, that means maintenance have to take an hour of the 9 hours (during the night, they work from 11 pm to 8 am, since at 8 am, the opening procedures already starts) for that "unexpected" problem. Now, since its takes an average of 30-45 minutes to inspect a train, what do you do? You get the attraction running, then wait until the attraction is running in the morning to inspect that train and hopefully get it up and running the sooner the better. That's if unexpected problems don't arise.

My point is: There's no miracle solutions. Even chaining maintenance to the ride all night, whipping them to get all the trains running.

Another thing that nobody has mentioned is the certification of the emplyees running the ride. At SFEG's Twister II for example, a seperate certification is required to run the ride with two trains. Both the operator and the attendant have t have the certification. If the workers aren't qualified for the positions, they can't run the ride with two trains.

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"Standing in line to see the show tonight and there's a light on, heavy glow, by the way I tried to say I'd be there."-The Red Hot Chili Peppers

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2Hostyl said:
"Wow, did you all see that? Mark dub and I actually shared a common view.

Add this one to the "RC Rollback" Dave

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"To get into this head of mine, would take a monkey-wrench, and a lot of wine" Res How I Do"

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Yeah...don't let that happen again! ;)

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Doesn't it seem as though morons always have the caps lock on?

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Absimilliard said:

My point is: There's no miracle solutions. Even chaining maintenance to the ride all night, whipping them to get all the trains running.

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While I agree that there is no miracle solution, do some of these poor capacity parks even have third shift maintenance? Even if they do, what's to stop them from cutting back trains just to save wheels? When a B&M wheel costs $100 to recondition and they change several out a day, there will be pressure to reduce costs if capacity isn't something the park emphasizes as the cost of doing business.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com, Sillynonsense.com
"We used to hate people, now we just make fun of them. It's more effective that way." - KMFDM, "Dogma"

I actually think filling a train to it's max would make the line longer. If ride ops searched the crowds for "2 people" and we had to wait for these people to get throught the lines to the train, that would take a lot of time. And really all you did was subtract 2 people from a line of 300. Big difference.

Interesting... Millennium Force manages to fill pretty much every train, but then again, they have more than two people on the platform.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com, Sillynonsense.com
"We used to hate people, now we just make fun of them. It's more effective that way." - KMFDM, "Dogma"

I would still contend, Matt, that while I can certainly appreciate your reaction, yours is the FAR minority outlook. I'd be willing to wager that most people would NOT leave. My gut tells me that the majority of visitors would stay as long as possible to try and "get their money's worth". I just dont see some 'daytripper' being content with leaving so soon just because of lines...not with so much more time left.

If you all want to argue that this affects "future visits", then I wont even address that arguement. All we would have is simple speculation and the "eyewitness" reports of a very skewed audience.

As for an arguement "holding water" or not, the truth of the matter is no one here knows "why" parks like BGW, SFGAm, PKD, Holiday World (well maybe Paula :)), KennyWood, etc sometimes run beneath "max q". But I think of all the arguments proffered, the LEAST likely is that "They just dont care". To me at least, that sounds childish and I dont view multi-billion dollar corporations as 'childish'.

But whatever, y'all do what you want. I'm going to find me a hot ass line and stand in it for God knows how long for a cheap thrill (YES I AM INSANE! :))
lata,
jeremy

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"To get inside this head of mine, would take a monkey-wrench, and a lot of wine" Res How I Do

to nitro230ft's last comment...

I have to agree. There have been times when I have seen ops try to fill every available seat... calling out "single rider?!?" or "Two riders?!?" and holding up the respective number of fingers. Mean while, a train is stacked on the break run waiting for EVERY seat to be filled on the train that is loading.

While the loading train may be sent out full, they have spent a good bit of time searching for people to fill seats. Why not just load it, if there are empty seats, let it go, and then pull the waiting trian in and load that?

Granted, you do not see it often though.

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"I wasn't always this cynical, but then I started kindergarden..."

The fact that you need more people is one obvious reason. Wear and tear are another. But, it can get annnoying when there's an hour wait and there's an extra train just waiting to be used. But, if a train isn't half full, there's more of a chance of getting stuck, but I think that's basically a non-factor. It takes a while for a train to be put on the track from the transfer track, having to hold the other train(s) in the station, which may result in a longer wait. Whatever the reason, I'm sure it's a good one.

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HuKeD oNN fonickS dusinT wOrK"[;.

Here's my take on the leaving early because of no lines theory. I try to hit parks in mid-week to find the smallest crowds. This generally gives me loads of re-rides on all the main attractions at that park. If I start to tire of these rides because they are all walk ons I start to hit rides that I generally pass by. For instance, let's look at CP.

Generally if I hit a day with long lines, I will be in line most of the day just to ride all the coasters just once, with re-rides going to the top-guns. Therefore I have not ridden the vast majority of the flat rides that day. I leave the park at closing, not really worried about the rides I missed. But if the lines are all walk ons I find myself hitting the flat rides i generally pass by. I still stay late into the day, but I get a better assortment of rides for a whole day.

Now this may just be me, cause I'm a thrill ride whore. But when you're talking about the large parks, i think most people would stay. It's almost impossible to do every ride at SFWoA and spend decent time over in the wildlife section of the park. I don't understand why they wouldn't boost capacity on their coasters. If people got enough rides in early in the day, they may be more akin to spending time on the wildlife side (which always had few patrons when I was over there). I love marine life (avid scuba diver), but I'm going to pass it over until I get my coaster fix. If that takes most of the day, then I might not even make it over to the other half of the park.

Sorry for the rambling.

I too am more likely to STAY at the park when lines are shortest.....it's like ERT without the other enthusiasts...:)