Why can't chains take care of woodies?

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live4MF said:
the reason I say that about Viper is I remember riding the year it opened and it was great.....fast and fun. Now it's slower than the Eagle (before the breaking).....50mph compared to 66mph, and not as high either......so, IMO, Viper now is not all it was and could be.....and it seems to take forever to get on that ride.
I don't think Mean Streak runs badly, I just think they slowed it so much it's no longer a thrilling ride. It's too inconsistent. Just when you get some speed going, you slow down.
GregLeg: thanks for the info! I'm all for steel supports on the woodies if it makes a stronger structure so they don't have to break the ride to death.

Liz
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"The only real limit to height is what people are willing to get on." - Ron Toomer

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Um no Viper has always been the same and still is the same, no brakes have been added and it hasn't slowed down at all. You probally rode it the first time in the back car and the last time you rode it you must have rode it in the front car or towards the front.

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OK, here we go...

I am responding to several comments here regarding SFGAm and their care of their coasters. I have seen several comments about Viper and the Eagle.

I will start with Viper and say that I think they maintain it very well. It is one of the smoothest woodies I have ever riden. It is also not braked once until it comes into the station. I have riden this think about 50 times and can never remember them using brakes. I also cannot remember a bad ride on it which means they are doing a real good job fixing it.

Now for the Eagle. I will concede that they arent doing enough to get this monster running real well, however, I dont think there is enough money in the world to keep up with this thing either. I rode this thing early this year and the side I was on was retracked (guessing) and the smoothest I have experienced since when it first opened in the early 80s(this was my first coaster). They opened the other side a bit later in the season and it was rough, I thought the car was going to derail a few times, and they braked the hell out of the ride on the helix, which I can understand, because if they hadnt, we would have all been ejected straight out of the ride with all the rattling and bumps. There might be something in the design of this that makes it impossible to keep the entire ride maintained well throughout the season. I don't know too much about ride maintenance, but I do know that they are at least addressing the issue.

As for other parks, CP I think maintains Blue Streak pretty well and Mean Streak, well, they should just demolish it and start over. Maybe get CCI in there to put something else in it's place. It is a rough shod, piece of junk that has to be overbraked to keep the ride in one piece. I think that the ride is an example of bad engineering where a little forethought probably would have made this an excellent ride.

SFWOA does a great job with Villian and with Big Dipper. Raging Wolf Bobs is suffering. All o f them should be running more than one train, but that is a different issue all together.

All in all, I think parks do what they can to keep up most woodies. I think that some of the problem stems from poor initial engineering, and little forethought in regard to weather effects and aging.

Of all the current companies out there, I think CCI is doing the best job of addressing this issue. I look to Big Chief Carts and Coasters on this one. They have three woodies which have been there since the mid 90's and they are all running like they day they were built. I think that the steel structure that Zues uses does alot to keep the ride from aging poorly and keeping the ride from warping too much during harsh winters. Viper, a non CCI coaster uses some steel in it's structure and it has also stayed quite smooth. CCI uses this on many of their rides and I believe it to be a key to keeping a woody running well into the future.

Cheers,

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Bob Hansen

"Excuse me while I kick the sky!"
kickthesky@hotmail.com

CoasterDude316: um....no, I did not ride it the first time in the back. why do you think this? IMO, I think it's slow no matter where you sit.

L

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"The only real limit to height is what people are willing to get on." - Ron Toomer

Paramount is a big chain and i notice no complaints about their woodies. : )
 I think Six Flags is just in the industry for the quick buck and this results in low budgets for maintenence.  They know that most crowds come for the newer rides, so why should they care about the maintence of old rides?  It's very short sighted, but puts money in their pocket. 

quailroberts said:
"Paramount is a big chain and i notice no complaints about their woodies. : )
That was a joke right? I'll assume it was. But in the case that it wasnt I'll just drop these rides out there for the masses Hurler-Carowinds, Hurler-PKD, Rebel Yell-PKD, Grizzly-PGA, Beast-PKI, Son of Beast-PKI. I've heard (or made) complaints about all.

quailroberts then went over the top and said:
I think Six Flags is just in the industry for the quick buck and this results in low budgets for maintenence.  They know that most crowds come for the newer rides, so why should they care about the maintence of old rides?  It's very short sighted, but puts money in their pocket.
I get out of this phrase that qr thinks SFI neglects its older coasters. Hmm, that's strange as it operates two *really* old coasters, one of which is older than any coaster you'll find in Kennywood and these are consistantly noted as some of the gems of the chain. Heck, I'd even argue that the older woodies of the chain are better maintained than some of the newbies (when was the last time somebody said OrGASM was bad (pun well intended :))
lata,
jeremy
--Who understands that "Six Flags Hating" (TM) is a sporting event here on the buzz, but at least let's keep it in the realm of reality.

I had the same experience as Live4MF did on VIPER at SFGAm:

I rode it the first month it was open and it was really great! Really fast with TONS of "out of your seat" time...

Then I came back a year or so later and it seemed much slower and I didn't feel nearly as much air....hmmm.

(I always compare while riding in the same seat position too.) 

Is this because woodies just naturally do this? Slow down a bit after they are no longer "Brand New"? I know a lot of people have said that SonOfBeast ran better when it was first introduced (Something called Media Day or something like that) and that it never ran exactly like that ever since.

We all know that a lot of Woodies get brakes added to them after a while, so I just figured they did the same to VIPER - you know, so it wouldn't fall apart.

I still think VIPER is a lot of fun, but just not as insane as that first month.

~Tocci

Well SF cant build em right, PGA has one not worth maintaining, The classics (ie. Giant Dippers and Cyclone) need lots of attention due to age and lateral forces
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Aughhh look out there are Mice all around

Six Flags builds em then reprofiles them to the point where they suck
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Aughhh look out there are Mice all around

2Hostyl, the only complaints I've ever heard about Paramount coasters have been from people who can't handle them because they're 'too big' or 'too fast.'  And considering all the parks that Six Flags owns, being able to take good care of only two old roller coasters is not something that I would brag about.

Actually, is depends on when you visit the park. If you visit a park in the first few weeks of operation, every coaster there will be as smooth as it will be the whole season. As time goes on, the coasters need their wheels to be changed. So when the wheels are first put on a coaster, expect a smooth and fast ride. If you go the the park in later August, expect a rougher ride than usuall. It's like this for most coasters.

As for Viper at SFGAm, I don't know what you guys are talking about. It delivers for me everytime I ride it (only in the back of course) and I get plent of air-time. I don't think this coaster has become slower. And yes I did ride it opening year.

Again you're making generalizations. I can think of numerous woodies at SF parks that are well maintained.
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.:| Brandon Rodriguez |:.
http://www.coasters2k.com

how much of a factor is weather when it comes to woodies? I would suspect that the ones in warm climates are easier to maintain since they don't go through the stress of bitter cold and snow. does anyone find a difference in warm climate parks?

Liz

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"The only real limit to height is what people are willing to get on." - Ron Toomer

what about the cyclone at sfne? it has always been rough, but it was because of the non-padded morgan trains. now with the ptc's on it, it runs extreamely rough and needs a complete retracking even with the reprofiling of the first drop.

Quail: Then you must not have been listening very hard. Pretty much everyone who's ridden it says Grizzly @ PGA sucks, rough and boring. The Hurler coaster are far bumpier/shakier than their cousin Thunder Run @ SFKK. Rebel Yell and Grizzly @ PKD seem to have not had greasing since the beginning of the season.

There are only a handfull of problem coasters under the SF name (Screamin Eagle, Rotting lumber) Most of the rest are just poorly engineered (Rattler, Psyclone) or over-braked (American Eagle, Colossus), but those are not reflections of "maintenence".

And I only pointed out Wild One and Big Dipper to show how well they *DO* maintain woodies. (Any complaints about Twister? How bout Predator? Texas Cyclone? Judge Roy Scream? Villain? ROAR? What?!?)
jeremy

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"Nobody writes about the planes that land." Steve Salerno Washington Times 7-10-01

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2Hostyl said:
Two, personally, I thought Twisted Sisters was fine. It didnt seem to be 'out of whack' in any sense. They were good, not great, but good.

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I'd agree with this statement. The day I was there (day after SRM), they were running fairly well. I noted some AROUND-the-ride maintenance that could have been done (such as picking weeds), but the Sisters themselves were seemed pretty good.

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Finally, to compare Thunder Run to the Hurler coasters is a direct *SLAP* in the face to the SFKK maintainence staff. I dont know about the one in Carowinds this year, but Hurler @ PKD was absolutely TORTUROUS! Ask anyone who's been to PKD & SFKK this year which is the better maintained ride ('cept maybe GregLeg as he's a Hurler Hyper) and by far you'll hear TR.

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Hey, I won't even disagree with you there. My Hurler adventure was opening weekend (and "dead week" last summer before that), and I absolutely loved the ride, but I won't disagree that Thunder Run was running even better still.

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--Greg
"Beat the rush, sign up for your post-Mean Streak MRI now..."
My page  My other page  And my coaster page

*** This post was edited by GregLeg on 11/15/2001. ***

Well PGA's GRIZ doesn't even have a good track layout to hold it together, but we have all neglected Roar which is a good coaster, but still fairly new so we shall see, and the Riverside Cyclone is rough because its layout is nasty, that would be like taming the Coney Island Cyclone, it cant be done
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Aughhh look out there are Mice all around