Why are B&M's brakes so thick?

Wednesday, February 27, 2002 1:44 PM
Why are B&M's brakes fins (if they are thin enough to be called fins) so big? Is it because the trains are really heavy and would rip off a regualar fin or what? And also, does anyone know the maximum angle you can have a brake run on and still have the train come to a complete stop?
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SFNE drops its "floor" for 2002! Visit www.geocities.com/sfneguy for info. and pics of SFNE, including the most unique constr. pics of SFNE on the web. Formerly known as srosatsfne.
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Wednesday, February 27, 2002 1:59 PM
I would bet that the wideness of their brake fins has something to do with heat.  I can imagine how much friction, wear and tear, and heat a thin brake fin like an Arrow must be subjected to.  Although the B&M brake fins aren't one solid piece, I bet they stand up to heat/wear better.
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- Peabody
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Wednesday, February 27, 2002 2:01 PM
About your angle question:  A train can be stopped completely at ANY angle.  Look at the Impulse coasters!  The steepest traditional brake run I've ever seen is on Fujiyama.  Check it out (you do a complete stop on it) http://www.coastergallery.com/japan/FH11.html
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- Peabody
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Wednesday, February 27, 2002 2:16 PM
The added length of the 4-across seats definitely has a impact upon the thickness of the fin brakes. Also as previously mentioned the B&M trains are significantly heavier than most other styles of trains except for 4-D arrow trains, which have been labeled "Tanks" by many enthusiasts.
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confucius say:Show-off always shown up in showdown.
Best Fortune ever!!
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Wednesday, February 27, 2002 2:20 PM
That happens to be where the train touches the brakes, but I doubt it has anything to do with anything. That's just the central chassis to the train.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com, Sillynonsense.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"

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Wednesday, February 27, 2002 3:51 PM
Remember: Standard Vekoma and Arrow brakes (the brake jaws, not the train fins) have to be removed (the 2 jaws) to be able to change the pads! Which is a problem... if its a trim brake mounted on a first drop, 100 + feet over the ground!
Now, with B&M way, you only need to remove and replace the pads, keeping the jaws and hardware there, which is less a burden then removing the 350 pounds Vekoma and Arrow brakes, carry them to the ground or workshop, to change the pads!
BTW: Vekoma understood that problem and DLP is using a prototype of a new type of brake jaws similar in ways to the B&M ones, that has thicker (and smaller) pads, thus, you dont need to dissassemble the brakes. Vekoma is solving the only problem with them, that they founded out after 6 months of use on Space Mountain (they are used on the first 3 brakes in zone 6 of Space Mountain, which are the final brake run. These 3 brakes, in case of both stations filled by a train, have the job to stop the train from 40 mph... to 0 in 2 seconds! So, they are the best candidates for a resistance test. The first brake pads used cracked too easy. Now, Vekoma and Space Mountain maintenance are looking at a new allow to melt the pads from, so its will crack less, before Vekoma install them on their coasters that require high speed braking and tortuous brake positions.). Coasters that could used these new brakes are, for example, the 3 Déjà-Vu.

*** This post was edited by Absimilliard on 2/27/2002. ***

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Wednesday, February 27, 2002 4:13 PM
The real reason the brake bar is so wide is so that the brake tops or bottoms, Depending if it is inverted or not can be used as runners for advancing tires.

Chuck 

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Charles Nungester
167 coasters and hopes to be over 200 by the end of 2002 :)

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Wednesday, February 27, 2002 4:51 PM
Chuck: not necessarilly (sp?).  Iron Wolf has vertical tires to move the train out of the brakes.  admitidly its B&M's first coaster, but that proves that wheels weren't the original reason for the wide brake fins.

my guess would be that the device that connects the cars was that wide and stuck down far enough so they made those to have a dual purpose.  but then again, what do I know?

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-Bob
Knott's Berry Farm Cuba ~South Park
"Your proctologist called, he found your head!" ~Jerry "The King" Lawler

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Wednesday, February 27, 2002 5:01 PM

coasterjedi said:
Chuck: not necessarilly (sp?).  Iron Wolf has vertical tires to move the train out of the brakes.  admitidly its B&M's first coaster, but that proves that wheels weren't the original reason for the wide brake fins.
my guess would be that the device that connects the cars was that wide and stuck down far enough so they made those to have a dual purpose.  but then again, what do I know?
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-Bob
Knott's Berry Farm Cuba ~South Park
"Your proctologist called, he found your head!" ~Jerry "The King" Lawler

I must admit that I agree here and only thought about it after first replying,   That shaft down the middle of the car serves several purposes.    It is the spine of the train itself,  The brake pads on the sides of it and the contact point for the advancing wheels.
Chuck

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Charles Nungester
167 coasters and hopes to be over 200 by the end of 2002 :)

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Wednesday, February 27, 2002 5:05 PM

Peabody said:
About your angle question:  A train can be stopped completely at ANY angle.  Look at the Impulse coasters!  The steepest traditional brake run I've ever seen is on Fujiyama.  Check it out (you do a complete stop on it) http://www.coastergallery.com/japan/FH11.html
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- Peabody

Well yeah a coaster can be stopped at any angle with fin brakes as long as the track is tangent (Straight).   The only way to slow a train around a curve though is skid brakes or tires.
Impulse coasters stop coasters at 90* for a hold possition so yes.  You can stop em if you have enough brake area for the speed attained.
Chuck

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Charles Nungester
167 coasters and hopes to be over 200 by the end of 2002 :)

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Wednesday, February 27, 2002 5:07 PM
Perhaps the ultimate example of that would be the "tilt" coasters.  That will be interesting if we see an operational one.

Going from 60 or so to 0 was a very unusual sensation on Fujiyama.  You must be at about 40 degrees or so. The picture does not do it justice since you can only see a small part of the brake run.

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- Peabody

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Wednesday, February 27, 2002 5:13 PM
Hey Peabody, you were two photos off. I can see the brake run in this one. Yikes, what'll happen if they fail? Actually the same applies for all coasters, they'll overshoot the station. *Thinks of SROS SFNE.* :)
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Wednesday, February 27, 2002 6:41 PM
Found an old Popular Mechanics article on B:TR. Tried to find it online, no luck. Scanned & uploaded it, pardon the quality as it's a colour photocopy of the original.

Here it is - How it works. Actually it's just the diagram, if anyone wants to the whole article, just give me the word. There 3 errors with the drawing, the wheels are too small & the assemblies are on the wrong sides as they would hit the track ties! The last is the spine is oversized, it's only a drawing.

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Thursday, February 28, 2002 10:05 AM
Your link didn't work. Could you e-mail it to me? Check my profile for the address.
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SFNE drops its "floor" for 2002! Visit www.geocities.com/sfneguy for info. and pics of SFNE, including the most unique constr. pics of SFNE on the web. Formerly known as srosatsfne.
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Thursday, February 28, 2002 11:42 AM
A couple of things that B&M do that are a little different...

The fin brakes that we are accustomed to on both steel and wood coasters use a metal fin attached to the bottom (side) of the train and a brake caliper on the track that squeezes down on the fin. I've seen both spring-applied and pressure-applied versions. Rather than attach a brake fin to the track-side surface of the car frame, since the frame is clear for the full length of the train, B&M attach a brake lining material to both sides. So while the brake caliper works like the usual fin brakes, the caliper really doesn't squeeze down on the car spine quite the way a fin brake caliper does. The action is similar, but the construction has more in common with the skid brakes often used on wood coasters. In that the braking surface is integral to the structure of the train, not merely a bolted-on fin.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

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Thursday, February 28, 2002 11:50 AM
I still have that issue of popular mechanics...i was looking at it last nite
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"ok everyone go ahead and pull down on your shoulder restraint so you feel nice and stuck!"
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