Why are block brakes needed?

That's where PKI gets into trouble as well, because Top Gun is run hopelessly below capacity with its two trains. They will sit on a train and not dispatch until the other one is in the brakes, which is insane to me because that lift is not exactly a fast one. They've got all day to move the next one in.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com, Sillynonsense.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"

You wanna talk "below capacity"? Look at SFA's "Wild One". Wild one has a final break run (A), followed by a 'long drawn out curve' and *another* brake run (B) just uptrack of the station (C). However, during normal operations, train 1 is held at (A) while train 2 is loading in (C). After train 2 is dispatched to the lift, train 1 is advanced to (B) where is pauses again (although briefly) before being advanced into the station (C).

The result is that the train on the course is over halfway through the ride before riders even BEGIN to board. One awaits on the brakes for an average of 30-45 seconds before being advanced to the station.

And before anyone asks, no Wild One does NOT have a third train. So why they do this is unclear to me (though I'm sure they have a reason)
jeremy EIT (Engineer In Training...a few more years...)
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Besides, if we were really shutting down people we disagreed with, would Jeremy (2Hostyl) still be around? :) I think not. - Jeff 1/24/02

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Jeff said:
That's where PKI gets into trouble as well, because Top Gun is run hopelessly below capacity with its two trains. They will sit on a train and not dispatch until the other one is in the brakes, which is insane to me because that lift is not exactly a fast one. They've got all day to move the next one in.

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Jeff, you need to realize if the train is dispatched too soon and by some chance reaches the top of the lift before the other train was completely into the the finals brakes the ride would 'set up' and that pretty much means the coaster his its own ride stop and shuts itself down because it senses an imminent block violation.  Then you need to go through the hassle of getting someone to restart the ride, possibly do block checks again, etc etc.  You get the point (big waste of time).  It's just to be 100% sure they will not set up the ride.

With Top Gun, it all depends on how the blocks are set up.  If the 2nd block goes to the begenning of the brake run, they'd have to wait for the train to at least enter it.  If it is after the 1st brake in the brakerun, they could probably dispatch sometime during the ride course.
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Is it the roar of Kumba or the kumba of Roar? Discuss!

On Top Gun, they should be able to roll the train from the holding brake into the station just as soon as the train leaving the station clears the last brake caliper...once the train engages the first anti-rollback on the lift, it isn't coming back.

They should be able to dispatch from the station as soon as the train ahead gets to a point closer to the end of the ride than the time required to go up the lift. Because the ride is so short compared to the lift, they ought to be comfortably able to dispatch as soon as the lift is clear. If the timing is right, that should allow the train on the course to trim on the holding brake and then roll non-stop into the station. In fact, that's almost a requirement anyway, as the back brake MUST be clear before the train clears the top of the lift.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

FOF, that depends which park you are working at.  Some parks, apparently not yours (I'd be scared to go there), require more authorized personal to restart rides.  Anyways, ride stop or none, the ride is going to stop...lol....so its a lift stop...big deal. :)  And of course I'm not arguing that lifts have variable speeds, because some do...but many policies that are made don't care about that, they just want to be 100% safe (and prevent a setup at all costs) and wait until the train is in the brakes.

Dave Althoff, Jr. (the enthusiast with too much time on his hands trying to impress 12 year olds with big words).  I agree that they could dispatch the train before the other hit the brakes, but the fact of the matter is to prevent things, such as a ride setting up, many times redundant policies are in place to make 100% certain it won't happen (such as waiting to dispatch a train until the other is in the brakes).  I know those policies exist.

*** This post was edited by SFGRAMBoy20 on 1/31/2002. ***

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SFGRAMBoy20 said:
"Dave Althoff, Jr. (the enthusiast with too much time on his hands trying to impress 12 year olds with big words)"

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Don't insult probably the most knowledgeable person in regards to the mechanics and workings of amusement rides that we have here at Coasterbuzz...Thank You.

*** This post was edited by CPgenius on 1/31/2002. ***

Okay, so I will ask once again:  Why is everyone making this so damn complicated?  It's not that hard.  Different rides have a different blocking pattern, so don't sit there and wonder "gee, why does (insert ride here) not dispatch the train at so-and-so point if the end of the block is at this point?"  They probably have a very good reason for doing it, so do not critisize them, ok?  When have you had to wait in line for Top Gun lately anyways?

EDIT:  There's definately some flaming going on here.  Big surprise it's coming from SFGRAMBOY20!

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Is it the roar of Kumba or the kumba of Roar? Discuss!

*** This post was edited by Spacecase8310 on 1/31/2002. ***

Well I'm glad we have our own policies because setups are not daily occurances at our rides.

SFGRAMBOY20, obviously Bobby works for one of the Paramount parks...I don't think Paramount goes quite so far as Cedar Fair when it comes to empowering ride crews, but they come close. FOF can correct me if I am mistaken here, but apparently his park relies on highly trained, empowered, responsible operators who take charge of the ride for the day. They run it, monitor it, and in the case of many unexpected shutdowns, they have the authority to re-start the ride. That, and many times the rides are designed so that a set-up does not trigger an E-stop and can be cleanly restarted by the crew.

By comparison, there are parks out there where the operators are only allowed to conduct normal operations, and ANY unusual situation requires management or maintenance intervention. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that any one system is better or worse than any other. But I am going to tell you that just because the crew on one ride can clear its own set-ups and the crew on another has to wait for maintenance doesn't mean that either park's procedure is safer or less safe than the other.

In other news: Are my words too big for you? And quite frankly, I don't care if I impress anybody or not. :)

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

So Fof, when a setup happens, does the PLC indicate to you that it is definately a set-up or does it just tell you that it is a general error?
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Is it the roar of Kumba or the kumba of Roar? Discuss!

More theory here... :) In a set-up situation on a ride equipped to handle it cleanly (as FoF describes), when the ride stops, the control system still "knows" where the trains are. So advancing a train or whatever to clear a block should allow the operator to restart the ride without requiring a reset...but good practice dictates that correcting the fault (clearing a block) should NOT automatically restart the machinery: the operator must do that.
A less sophisticated control system might respond to a set-up by e-stopping the ride, in which case a reset would be needed to tell the controls where the trains are.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.