What would B&M and Intamin do without Stengle?

IMHO Stengel was insturmental in these companies successes. However he has had some major failures as well.

However I thinking going outside the box is going to lead to the next generations of thrills, Different types of loops/inversions. Some coasters with elements of suprise and awe.

I say have The Gravity Group design one for ya!

Chuck

^What would you regard as his failures, Charles?

SOB for one, There are several not so great ones and IMHO like others have said, Most of the B&Ms are just different variations on the same layout.

Stuff like that valley drop before the fourth and fifth hill on SFNE's ROS and not necessaraly predictable elements, turns, dives ect are what makes a coaster over the top.

IMHO B&M in the USA hasn't beaten Kumba, BMTR and Montu yet and they are some of the oldest.

Chuck

^^ I thought all B&M's are just variations of the same layout. ;)

It's hard to make a statement about "failures" of Werner Stengel - but he certainly has also been involved in the planning of coasters that do not count among enthusiast's favourites - even though their failure may successfully be attributed to other factors other than his contribution.
For example:
Son of Beast
The "Vekoma SLC"
Thriller/TTornado/Zonga (this is especially arguable).

But in all cases, I guess it can be argued he was not chiefly at fault, and he is easily excused by the countless other strokes of genius he helped bestow upon humanity :)

It seems like he doesn't really have anything to do with the layout so a sucky ride isn't anymore his fault than a wicked awesome ride. They are all just structures with dynamic forces.

I mean if Intamin designs a lame layout (not mentioning any names), Stengel's company can't really make it better. Of course, I guess they could make it worse, but those crazy Germans love G-forces, so I doubt that would happen. ;)

He/his company do various layouts, or work them to several concepts. He is also credited with the layout of SOB, and I so agree with Charles that his wooden coasters (especially the twisters) are not really his best work.
AFAIK the design proposal for SOB was the height, the loop and a huge, tilted helix.
Stengel wanted to use his patented laminated track for the first time, but PKI decided against it.

^ do you know what other wood coasters he/they were involved in in the pre-"prefab track" days?

BTW, the history section on http://www.rcstengel.com/ lists Flashback as another one of their projects.
But maybe that doesn't really count as a "failure", while few people liked the ride, it can still be seen as a technological breakthrough.

Before I go out and party, I pulled out the Stengel book again to check his complete listings (until 2000):
His work is seperated in "Layout", "Layout Revision", "Design", "Dynamics" and "Dynamics Revision". There are also some listings for "Stress Analysis", mostly for the Vekoma rides that were built for Disneyland Paris.
Speaking of Disney. Before they built the crappy Indiana Jones ride, they considered something called "Discovery Mountain" which was planned for Giovanola.

His work for B&M, starting with Iron Wolf is 95% Dynamics. The rest is Dynamics Revision. So its safe to say that he is not responsible for the layouts of their rides.

The recently destroyed "Sierra Tonante" was his first wooden project. He was responsible for the design.

Wild Wild West at the former Movie World in Germany was his first of four (?) projects for RCCA. According to his project listings he did
Layout Revision and Dynamics for all of them (the others are WWW at Warner Madrid, Magnus Colossus at Terra Mitica and SOB)

I remember when The first German woody was built that the TÜV had lots of concerns with the traditional way woodies were built. They asked for many changes. Instead of the original 60° drop on the original, the clone had only a 45° degree first drop and heavily banked turns.

This might have sparked his idea for the pre-fab track.

The interesting thing about this list is that it also lists all the rides that were planned and never built.
It seems that PKI comissioned some interesting things which never saw the light of day.

The infamous "standing eight", which appears as "Coaster with 90° figure eight loop" in his listings was considered by PKI and was to be built by BHS. Morey´s Pier were alledgedly also interested in this fiendish design.

Another Paramount-plan was to build the first 100 mph coasters for PKI and PGA. They scrapped those plans and build "Flight of Fear" instead.

He also did a layout for an Intamin Inverted coaster that should have gone to Geauga Lake when Six Flags took over the park.

His work for Intamin is a mix of layout and design jobs.

With Mack, Zierer, Premier, Maurer Söhne, Vekoma, Cosmont, LHS, Gerstlauer, as the other clients, his company is certainly crucial for every steel coaster that is and was built during the last fourty years.

tricktrack, Discovery Mountain was, based on concept arts, a huge mountain that would have had a rollercoaster, first generation freefall, the Nautilus submarine and a restaurant. Unfortunately, plans were scaled back, they built the Temple of Peril on short notice and then started working on Discovery Mountain. This Discovery Mountain wasn't the big concept, but a small mountain with a launched looping coaster in it and supposedly, due to space concern, Giovanola was replaced by Vekoma.

A few weeks before opening, Discovery Mountain was renamed "Space Mountain: De la Terre a la Lune". Remnants of the old name were still around until the 2005 rehab. *** Edited 5/10/2008 11:27:37 PM UTC by Absimilliard***