What Will Six Flags Do
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Explain SFGAm and their non-competitive market. They add big attractions regularly and have good customer service and capacity.
Are they the exception to the rule here?
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Arena football has arrived in the Windy City. Go "Chicago Rush"
*** This post was edited by Chitown 11/10/2003 12:29:52 AM ***
I guess that my theory might do better to explain why small parks don't often get new rides, than why the bigger ones do get them. :)
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Knotts Halloween Haunt- Everyone has to go sometime....
Before SF became a supposed player in the northern Ohio market, Cedar Point was still adding large capital expenditures. Its the money making parks that get the big toys. :)
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Arena football has arrived in the Windy City. Go "Chicago Rush"
Chitown said:
The only thing that SF should apply across the board with their parks is customer service.Just because you have a small park with SF branded on it doesn't mean you should get a brand spankin new multi-million dollar coaster. Be glad SF bought up some of these parks because otherwise they wouldn't exist.
IMO, SFMM shouldn't be considered SF's goldmine park. They pull in the same attendance figures as SFGAm and SFGAdv. Difference is, the Chicago and New Jersey park close for 5 plus months. To me, the So Cal. park is not pulling in the attendance that it has the potential to do.
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Arena football has arrived in the Windy City. Go "Chicago Rush"Hymmm, who says SFMM was ever SFI's goldmine park? Because they build the most rollercoasters? I though we established a long time ago that coasters alone do not add up to a goldmine. The park has virtually no flat rides, an extremely outdated waterpark, and no resort for families.
The goldmine title has always belonged to SFGadv, which has had as large or larger investments over the last ten years. The only difference is, SFMM pretty much has no height limit(so they can build as high as they want), which is a huge advantage in an otherwise unbeatable So- Cal market. The whole "SFMM gets spoiled" is a big smoke screen. Can anybody remember the last time SFMM was able to build a "newsworthy" addition that wasn't a coaster?
coasterdude318 said:
For instance, it's nonsense to build a $14 million B&M coaster at, like, Wyandot when there's no chance in hell SF will ever gain enough of an attendance increase to support such a ride.-Nate
well nate ur right about that b/c Wyandot is a WATER PARK! Duh! And yes they have run some parks into the ground. When SFWoa was an independent park named Geauga Lake it was a nice family place to go. Nicely Themed and a good old fashioned park. Then SF comes in rips out much of what has built that park to where it was and added tons of comic book and looney tunes crap. Right there that took away from the old fashioned atmosphere. So i think that if Six Flags hadn't bought Geauga Lake in the first place the park would still be a great old fashioned family get together spot and would never get closed because of Cedar Point.
And yes it is dumb to pump muti-million dollar things into one park. Just because it can stay open year round, Just because there is a greater population, just because there is more competition around them doesnt mean they should shovel loads of money into one park. And if you think about it, within a 4 hour drive of Cleveland/ Akron area you have SFWoA, CP, PKI, SF Darien Lake, Kennywood, and Kentucky Kingdom...so i think that that is a good competition market...sure they arent right next door, but i says thats alot of competition within a 4 hours drive.
I think a selling to an individual would be one of the best things for the park and would help it to secure its big-park-but-not-a-resort niche that will soon be opening up in the Ohio/PA market.
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Brett
Resident Launch Whore
Actually, those all sound like perfect reasons Six Flags should 'shovel loads of money into one park.' Why should Six Flags Low Attendance get the same cashflow as Six Flags Over Crowded?
CP Boy said:
And yes it is dumb to pump muti-million dollar things into one park. Just because it can stay open year round, Just because there is a greater population, just because there is more competition around them doesnt mean they should shovel loads of money into one park.
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-Mike
Say hello to all the apples on the ground--
They were once in your eyes but you sneezed them out while sleeping -MJK
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well nate ur right about that b/c Wyandot is a WATER PARK! Duh!
No way!!! Are you serious?!!! I don't believe "u"!!!
And yes they have run some parks into the ground.
Which? It seems to me that SF has yet to close a park.
When SFWoa was an independent park named Geauga Lake it was a nice family place to go. Nicely Themed and a good old fashioned park. Then SF comes in rips out much of what has built that park to where it was and added tons of comic book and looney tunes crap. Right there that took away from the old fashioned atmosphere.
If you honestly think that's why SFWoA is doing poorly, you're sadly mistaken. SFWoA's current conditions are due to many important factors, most of which "Scream Machine" covered above. SF came in, added a whole bunch of attractions to SFWoA and tried to compete with Cedar Point for the thrill-seeking crowd. It didn't work because people came and didn't return. They came for the new rides, but were faced with low capacity attractions (something people who go to CP are *not* used to). Additionally, there was rather poor customer service which left people unhappy with their experience. A second year of adding major attractions hurt the park even more. Then came the SeaWorld purchase. Now, instead of people visiting *twice* each year (once for SeaWorld, once for Geauga) as SF expected to continue, people are visiting *once* now that they're together. Thus, SF saw absolutely no (or very little) ROI on the SeaWorld purchase. Throw in a lack of discounts available to the public in 2002 and you've got trouble. It has nothing at all to do with "Loony Toons crap."
And yes it is dumb to pump muti-million dollar things into one park. Just because it can stay open year round, Just because there is a greater population, just because there is more competition around them doesnt mean they should shovel loads of money into one park.
Yeah, actually, that's exactly what it means. Why shovel money unnecessarily into parks where you're not going to see a return on your investment? It's *exactly* that strategy (adding huge rides to parks that can't support them) that got SF into trouble in the first place!
And if you think about it, within a 4 hour drive of Cleveland/ Akron area you have SFWoA, CP, PKI, SF Darien Lake, Kennywood, and Kentucky Kingdom...so i think that that is a good competition market...sure they arent right next door, but i says thats alot of competition within a 4 hours drive.
Yes, and SFWoA got five coasters in two years (seems like big spending on major attractions to me!), plus the purchase of an entire other park. That didn't work, so they're trying something new (and can you blame them?). I don't understand how on one hand you whine about the "comic book and Looney Tunes crap" in one paragraph and then beg for it in the next. You can't have both. Certainly everybody is thankful that you're not running SF, or SFWoA *would* be closing while right now it most certainly is not.
-Nate (who adds that SFKK is more than four hours from SFWoA for most drivers)
*** This post was edited by coasterdude318 11/10/2003 9:38:07 AM ***
-Michael
danh said:
selling off assets would not increase their revenue jeff.
Uh, yeah, no kidding. Who said otherwise? Read my post again... my point was that you can't generate dollars without a business selling something (namely tickets and food).
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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog
Blogs, photo albums - CampusFish
What time does the water show start?
:)
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BLAHABLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAH.
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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog
Blogs, photo albums - CampusFish
What time does the water show start?
thepinkdoomofmonkeys said:
well i tink tha' six flags shud close sfwoa and snd al teh rides to all da udder six falgs parks!!11!!1!!!:)
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BLAHABLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAH.
I think they should TAER IT DONN! ;)
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God wants spiritual fruits, not religious nuts!
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*** This post was edited by S00perGIR 11/11/2003 1:18:35 AM ***
CP Boy, You are one of the reasons that message boards are turning into trash papers, because you don't know the facts, and make up lies to make your story sound good, yet the bright people of this world see through it and will prevail!
*** This post was edited by midwave 11/11/2003 2:06:33 AM ***
Within 3-5 years, SFWofA will join the 3 million club in attandance with PKI and CP. SF entered the arms race prematurely by building like mad before the purchase of Sea World. I am certain that had they known the purchase was on the horizon, things would be a different story.
They have to stop that Wildlife Wild Rides BS and just plain promote the marine aspect of the park to Western Pa. people, who made up 50% of the guest at Sea World. I am sure someone in the Lococo family is reading this from his desk at Great Escape and mentioned that before they got their check.
Cedar Point never took Geauga Lake for competition, but they did watch Sea World. Kinzel held his breath that Busch never did buy GL, or the Point would have had 3 parks to contend with instead of one. Busch had thrown the idea around of a third gated waterpark.
Cedar Point is in the coaster and hotel business. Period. Just keep plugging the shows, Oktoberfest, Halloween, and whatever else brings them in. What happened to the $25 car loads, and the movie nights when Jaws was shown on a big screen over 'the Wave'? Again, Lococo family, did you not tell Mr. Story that the kids beat the doors down on these promotions?
As far as food goes, Sea World had the best in Ohio. Just keep going. If you cannot staff it, sub let it out. SF has been doing this at other parks with great sucess. That Mandarin buffet is a great gig. I believe GL is ready to place a major chain, such as Applebee's or Texas Roadhouse with a lakefront view and full service. Indoor seating is always a hit.
Sea World tried a Christmas operation for a while. Maybe its times again to light a fire under the sales department and see what worked. Halloween works at CP, and now at Kennywood. Its time to look for another source of revenue. The issue with SFWofA and SF Marineland is that it costs the same amount of loot to feed the fish, tigers, zebras, dolphins, etc 365 days a year. It should be a priority to operate something other than a hotel just a bit longer.
Its a given in the industry circles that there are 7 marine life parks in North America. 3 Sea Worlds, Marineland in Niagara Falls, Miami Seaquarium, SF Marineland, and SFWofA. Let people know we have one right here in OHIO for you to visit. No body else including Disney will build any more.
Until a few years ago, no-one in the eastern Ohio market was exposed to a SF park. No one in Western Pa was either. The name Geauga Lake should have stayed. And SF Marineland should have been the new name of Sea World. When guests come into either gate, hosts should have happily informe them that they get into both parks via the bridge, trail, boat, pogo stick, whatever it takes to keep them their. Name changing is confusing to families trying to make mini vacation plans.
Batman stunt show. Time to go. The stadium is too large to see guys in tights and capes from 100 yards away. Bring back a waterski show. How about geting on the phone and bring the Cypress Gardens crew up? People love to see girls in bathing suits make pyramids. Again, where is the marketing department?
The internet. Why can't there be just one price for a pass across the board? Sell those passes all year, and make them a 365 day pass. Then remind people that SF California is open year round. A coupon book can be available for a 'home' park, but that is all. Stop people from driving from New Jersey to Maryland for passes and so on.
Ohio also is in the need for some hotels on site. Nothing major, maybe 2 or 3 150-200 units express units. Great Adventure needs to push Jackson Twshp. to upgrade the sewer and water systems so they can move forward, also. Both WofA and GrAdv could promote the nearby outlets. Remember Aurora Farms? Very busy place.
SF is improving season to season. Its just time to be creative again like most of the parks were when they were independents. Granted, Wyandot Lake, Wild World, Enchanted Forest, Great Escape, and a few more were ho-hum parks, but Darien Lake, Elitch's Gardens, Geauga Lake and Fiesta Texas were good places on their own. Its time to start catering to the families a bit more.
PS...Is it too much to show Looney Toon cartoons in line anymore? Great way to pass the time.
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"Find Agent Johnson at IAAPA and win a drink"
*** This post was edited by Agent Johnson 11/12/2003 12:14:46 AM ***
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