What is so terrible about SFAW?

Batman received new padding (new harnesses all together?) for its harnesses this season. At least one of its trains received new wheels: easily realized by just looking at them. The train with the new wheels runs much smoother now.

Serial Thriller finally got its red train back and is claimed to be running smoother than the teal.

Texas Cyclone (IMO) is running better than it has in years. This past Sunday it honestly felt out-of-control. The slams into the laterals was the most intense I've ever experienced on it.

Even more important, this past Sunday SFAW was running multi-train operation on Serial Thriller, Batman, and Texas Cyclone. Unfortunately, Tornado is still down.

One question... Some people have said that SFAW doesn't need new rides... that it just need its existing ones taken care of. While I agree that its existing rides need TLC (and it clearly is happening now) I "never" see anyone say that some other park just needs some TLC.

I am not trying to "beat a dead horse", but SFAW consistently turns a nice profit every year unlike other parks within the chain such as Fiesta Texas (which is interesting because SFFT is my fav SF park). Under the current ownership, I don't see SFAW ever becoming more than it currently is. Premiere has obviously been great to a few parks within the chain (SFO, SFoT, & SFMM), but just as well, other parks are sacrificed for their sake.

Coasters are always getting new wheels. If they're replaced once a season they'll be square by June.

And I might add the Six Flags Geauga Lake's Batman doesn't get its wheels replaced often enough.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
"From the global village... in the age of communication!"
Watch the grass grow!

This annoys me to see people lump SFAW in with SFKK and SFEG regarding potential market size.  That's just baloney.  They market around Houston is quite large, and comparable to Dallas/Fort Worth and Atlanta.

Going by the 2000 census data, the Houston metroplex ranks about 10th in the nation for population (4.7 million).  Dallas ranks 9th (5.2 million), and Atlanta ranks 11th (4.2 million).   Denver is 19th (2.6 million) and Louisville is 50th (about 1.1 million). 

The population chart is here if you want to look:
http://www.xist.org/cd/us_agg4.htm

The point is, SFAW is NOT in a small market like SFEG and SFKK, and it consistantly makes Six Flags theme parks a lot of money (much more than those two parks and nearby Fiesta TX). 

SFOT and SFOG get better treatment not because of the market size and how profitable the park is, but because those two parks have private investors who will sue if unacceptable levels of park improvements are made by Six Flags.  When unacceptable levels of improvement are made to Astroworld, no one can do a damn thing except cry and visit less. 

Consequentally, if not enough people visit the park then Six Flags feels it's not worth investing in - and if more than expected visit then Six Flags decides they can make plenty of money without investing.  This is what really happened over the last two years. Astroworld got the shaft no matter what. 

1) Astroworld is in a large market
2) Astroworld is more profitable than 2/3rd of the Six Flags parks
3) Astroworld beat their attendance forecast for 2001
4) Six Flags is not putting in any substantial new attractions for the 3rd year in a row.  At best, some old broken stuff will get fixed.

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Jeff said:

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And I might add the Six Flags Geauga Lake's Batman doesn't get its wheels replaced often enough.
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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
"From the global village... in the age of communication!"
Watch the grass grow!

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Get it straight Jeff, its Six Flags World of Adventure not Geauga Lake anymore. Having ridden Batman Knight Flight many times in the last two years I have never found it to be a problem at all. BKF is one of the best, if not the best ride at the park.

Yes, I'm perfectly aware of what the name is. Now why are you being so bloody rude?

I hear what you're saying Pancake, and it is rather odd that Astroworld is treated like the redheaded step child of the chain.

My Texas geography isn't outstanding, so perhaps you can tell me, what competition does the park have? I mean where are people willing to drive from to go there? If there really isn't another park to compete with, I guess I'm not as surprised then that they don't dump some capital into it. You may have even answered your own question. If it financially delivers for the company year after year, why bother?

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
"From the global village... in the age of communication!"
Watch the grass grow!

Jeff, SFAW has virtually no competition in the Houston area.  Kemah Boardwalk (less than an hour away) has a ferris wheel and some flat rides, but nothing on the scale of AW.  There are 4 larger parks within a days drive: SFOT in Arlington (Ft. Worth/Dallas), SFFT and SWOT in San Antonio, and Jazzland in New Orleans.  I would say that this relative lack of competition is one thing that works against SFAW.
*** This post was edited by Jeff on 10/9/2001. ***

*** This post was edited by bigboy on 10/10/2001. ***

How far away (drive time) are the other parks? Here in Ohio, Cedar Point is three hours from PKI, but I think most of us here would agree that they compete, especially for the people in Columbus or Indianapolis.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
"From the global village... in the age of communication!"
Watch the grass grow!

From SFAW:

SFOT - 4 hours, SFFT/SWOT - 3 hours, Jazzland - 5 hours

One thing about all of these areas (Houston included):  They all have a lot more to offer tourists than just the theme parks.

SFOT is smack in the middle of an entertainment district.  SFAW is across the freeway from the Astrodome, but miles away from Galveston, downtown, and the museum area.  SFFT/SWOT are both on the outskirts of town, a good drive away from the pedestrian friendly downtown tourist area.  I don't know a whole lot about Jazzland.

SFAW is 3 hours (maybe 3.5, depending on how you drive) from Fiesta Texas and Sea World. That's roughly the driving time from Cedar Point to PKI. SFoT is about 4 to 4.5 hours away from SFAW. Jazzland is about 6 hours east.

The only "serious" competition that SFAW has is other Six Flags parks and Sea World. IMO, Six Flags has something close to a monopoly on the major Texas markets (Sea World excluded, of course). SF corporate certainly doesn't pit the parks against one another for attendnace.

To say that SFAW is "miles away from the museum district", while technically correct, is not really fair. When considering the relative size of the city, SFAW is VERY close to the museum district at only 4.2 miles driving distance according to Mapquest.

*** This post was edited by Alex R. on 10/9/2001. ***

Living within 5 minutes of the park I can verify that the drive from Astroworld to the museum district is only about 10 minutes.  To get to the theater district downtown it'd take about 20.  To get to the Galveston beaches will take you about half an hour. 

Astroworld doesn't have much competition by other parks because it's so centrally located to Houstonians and other parks are 3+ hours away and mostly owned by Six Flags.  Astroworld's real competition is other forms of entertainment, such as sports games, arcades, go kart tracks, movies, etc. 

I went to Jazzland this summer.  They are a small park with a Vekoma Boomerang, and S&S space shot, and a fabulous CCI, the Megazeph.  They're in the process of building a SLC clone in the offseason.  No wait at all for MegaZeph either, and I think only 20 bucks to get in.  Loved it.
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I rode "X" and never went upside down.

I've only been to Astroworld once, shortly after they opened Serial Thriller, and I thought the park was nice, but seriously lacked a signature ride. I don't really understand why this park doesn't warrent a big B&M or Arrow ride, but perhaps like Jeff said, they don't really need it if steady attendance is already there, and there isn't neighboring competition to warrent that type of investment. It's sad, but no different than Valleyfair fans who complain that Cedar Point and Knott's Berry Farm get all the good rides. Let's face it, SFMM and SFgradv are the Cedar Points of the SF chain.
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What is hateful to you, do not to your fellowman. That is the entire law; all the rest is commentary. -The Talmud

Dweaver, I agree with your statement that SFMM and SFGrAdv are the "Cedar Points" of the Six Flags chain. However, the point was that AstroWorld (for lack of a better phrase) isn't even a "Darien Lake". I honestly realize that AstroWorld will never be comparable to Magic Mountain, but virtual neglect on the corporate office's part can hardly be justified. For 2001, the park received only approx. $400k operating budget (from sixflagshouston.com)... hardly anything when compared to the millions most other "major" parks receive. Somehow, the mgmt of SFAW was able to squeak out enough to make minor improvements throughout the park similar to last year.

While SFMM and SFGrAdv can be considered flagships of the chain, the corporation certainly does not have a problem with spending money:

1. Purchase of new parks and conversion of existing non-SF properties into SF themed venues
2. Rides have been added to several parks within the past few years that are not exactly flagship and some of which are continuing to get more: SFA, SFDL (yes, Superman was '99 but it was also a custom designed hyper... not something you see built every day), SFoT, SFFT, SFKK, SFoG, SFGrAm, SFStLouis, SFWoA, SFNE, SFMexico, SFHolland, SFBelgium... and the list goes on)

Do all of these parks have markets that are so vastly different from SE Texas? I doubt it. The only thing that makes any kind of sense is that the company is building these parks up now so in the hopes of not having to spend money. Sadly, SFAW has lost out on new ride additions while at the same time being profitable. That can't be said of every park in the chain and easily the vast majority of parks have received substantial new rides within the past few years. Surely some money can be found with the corporation to justify a new ride at SFAW.

If the current line of thinking continues forward, then was is the end result: AstroWorld never gets a new ride because attendance goals were met?

[thanks for reading through all this... I'm not pointing fingers at anyone here. my dissatisfaction is solely aimed at SF Corporate]

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Alex R. said:
2. Rides have been added to several parks within the past few years that are not exactly flagship and some of which are continuing to get more: SFA, SFDL (yes, Superman was '99 but it was also a custom designed hyper... not something you see built every day), SFoT, SFFT, SFKK, SFoG, SFGrAm, SFStLouis, SFWoA, SFNE, SFMexico, SFHolland, SFBelgium... and the list goes on

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Umm...I would call SFOT a flagship park...

Well, when you put it that way...
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What is hateful to you, do not to your fellowman. That is the entire law; all the rest is commentary. -The Talmud

OK, so? The point is that almost (remember "almost") all of the Six Flags branded parks have received significant capital. Indeed, there are some that didn't, but easily the majority of them did regardless of being "flagship" or not.

Let's face it, it's just like I said! AstroWorld is getting SCREWED because Gary Story HATES it! If you don't live anywhere near here, you don't understand that, because you're probably used to the unjustly OVERSPOILED parks in the chain that Gary Story LOVES, like SFMM. That park gets what it gets because corporate WANTS it to be a flagship. We don't get ANYTHING because corporate WANTS us to be a scrapyard. End of story. Now, if only it were the end of Story, I'm sure that SFAW would get everything that it DESERVES, but as long as that JERK is in charge of the money, SFAW will NEVER get ANYTHING! It has nothing to do with tourism, attendance figures, competition, or lack thereof. It is SOLELY because of Gary Story, and his OBVIOUS distaste for SFAW! I've said it before, and I'll say it again: If you don't build ANY new rides at a certain park, the majority of people will go to the park that you do build the rides for. You want SFMM to be a tourist destination, you give them NEW stuff ALL THE TIME. You want them to stop going there? You STOP building there, and start building somewhere else. Gary Story wants SFAW to DIE, so that's why it looks as PATHETIC as it does. If he wanted it to be "the crown jewel", it would make SFMM look like a kiddie park. Y'all can try to say that that's not true all you want, but the figures and the facts don't lie. It's just like Fierce Pancake said. We get SHAFTED, no matter what, because we've been made into a SCAPEGOAT. SFMM gets PAMPERED, no matter what, because it's been made the FAVORITE. Remember, the whole Six Flags empire BEGAN in Texas, at SFOT, so Texas is NOT a poor market for coasters, it's THE market for coasters, otherwise, Six Flags would still be a single mom & pop park in Arlington. You can't become the LARGEST chain of theme parks in the whole world by starting your entire empire in a POOR market. You just CAN'T! Corporate took all of OUR money and ran away to California with it, to build their dreamland where they WANTED to build it, they didn't give it back to the people who made it happen for them. That's all there is to it! They spent it where they WANTED to spend it. You can say that it's economics, and I'll concede that economics is a small part of the equation, as is demographics, tourism, competition, and large numbers of investors with powerful numbers of attorneys who WILL sue the pants off of them if they don't cave in to their demands, but it still boils down to what corporate WANTS to do, not what they SHOULD do, and not what they HAVE TO do, otherwise, SFAW wouldn't be the bastard child that it is! Put someone besides Gary Story in charge of the money, and SFAW will probably RULE again, like it once did before, so many decades ago, or at least it WON'T be treated like ****, but leave Gary Story in charge, and it will ALWAYS be a DUMP! I'm tellin' ya, that man is the ONLY reason why SFAW just plain SUCKS! 
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http://www.gayrollerride.com

*** This post was edited by Iron Draggon on 10/17/2001. ***

As was said earlier, I seriously doubt that the CEO of a corporation the size of Six Flags Inc. makes decisions on capital investment on the basis of hating or loving parks. If you feel that strongly about Gary Story's hatred of SFAW, show us some proof (other than the fact that capital is not invested). Bring in some quotes from Gary Story showing his distaste for the park. Otherwise, I think you should give up on that line of reasoning. Six Flags Inc. is a business and, like it or not, the decision to not invest capital in SFAW is a business decision. If the park performs as consistently as some have suggested, then people at corparate probably see no need to add new rides. If investors are not demanding expansion at that park, then they will probably not throw money at an expansion.

Here is a solution, move to Valencia. There is a lot of new home construction going on just a few miles from SFMM. That way your home park WOULD get all of the expantion dollars!

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"X" marks the spot in 2001, or 2002, or sometime in the future.