Walt Disney World takes crowd management to a new level

The kind of freak show that would make most men curl up in the corner and cry until their mommies came to rescue them.

Does your freak show advertise with old banners stuffed away in a carousel shed? Because I hear they fetch a pretty penny in the antiques market.

No, but I need about $5000 to open the whip.

(and that has nothing to do with an old amusement ride)

HEY-OOO!

Aamilj said:
I'm not sure I like the direction they are heading, but I do not believe that status quo is the endgame. But I HATE lines. Personally I would like them to go back to the E tickets, etc. Seems the most economical means of controlling supply and demand. At the very least...whatever they are charging for the holidays is not enough.

The Disneyland Closed story made me start thinking - and these two stories can kind of go hand-in-hand, I think - but perhaps it is time to start seriously considering pricing according to crowd expectations.

Being as parks are pretty much in the hospitality business, why not do what hotels do and base rate on demand? I suppose the Disney parks already do this to a degree with their hotels, but maybe do it with the parks as well? I doubt it would quell the crowds, but if you're filling to capacity by early afternoon, you're leaving money on the table.

I think of a park like Dorney that prices differently early in the season and it works fine. (and looking at their website it seems that they even do it with parking now)

The "destination/vacation" nature of Disney would totally let them get away with this with no problem. Might be time for seasonal, demand-based, fluctuating pricing to both maximize revenue and manage crowd patterns. If anyone could do it effectively, it'd be Disney.

Carowinds did the price based on demand for Scarowinds this year (and if my 2 trips in October told me anything, it's that people are willing to pay a lot to go), so I think you're right about that.

Lord Gonchar said:
Being as parks are pretty much in the hospitality business, why not do what hotels do and base rate on demand? I suppose the Disney parks already do this to a degree with their hotels, but maybe do it with the parks as well? I doubt it would quell the crowds, but if you're filling to capacity by early afternoon, you're leaving money on the table.

...The "destination/vacation" nature of Disney would totally let them get away with this with no problem. Might be time for seasonal, demand-based, fluctuating pricing to both maximize revenue and manage crowd patterns. If anyone could do it effectively, it'd be Disney.

The other side of that coin would be to offer discounts to hopefully get more people through the turnstiles during the slow periods, too. They have been doing a lot of that for the last several years with drastically reduced hotel rates, and throwing in dining plans for free and such.

Would a ticket price of 25% less get more people to go during the off peak times? It'd sure make that trip a little more attractive for me.

I almost made the same comment. I give Disney a lot of credit, they know what they're doing. I look forward to a day when I can reserve a trip to Disney World and have everything planned and paid for. They're almost there. Much like a Cruise, I want to pay for an all inclusive, and even have my ride times scheduled out.

I was going to make a similar comment as Fafolguy's...

They could raise the price dramatically, and then offer discounts during the non-peak seasons. That would get more people through the gate in the off season, effectively spreading out the crowds throughout the year.

Of course, Disney knows their stuff, and they may have decided that theta idea would never work the way they want to. I think that crowds are probably more difficult to guage that we think they are.

Fafolguy said:
The other side of that coin would be to offer discounts to hopefully get more people through the turnstiles during the slow periods, too. They have been doing a lot of that for the last several years with drastically reduced hotel rates, and throwing in dining plans for free and such.

Yeah, exactly. I assumed potential discounts for slow times were a given too. Even though I'd question whether Disney's "slow" times are truly slow. But yeah, the core of the idea is there.

LostKause said:
I think that crowds are probably more difficult to guage that we think they are.

I think just the opposite. You'd probably be amazed at how well they know exactly how many people are coming on any given day.

Going back to the hotel thing (more specifically my experience with it) - my wife's current property (until Friday - yay new job for the new year!) has 124 rooms and she can tell her staff when to sell 134 or when to stop at 124 or when to raise rate by $20 or when to cut it by $20 with an eerie precision - and quite a ways out. I suspect Disney has way smarter people, way more of them and way more tools for determining such things.

Market demand strikes me as something that's totally predictable.

LostKause said:
They could raise the price dramatically, and then offer discounts during the non-peak seasons.

Isn't that exactly what they do now? I know it's not discounting the gate, but what sounds better as a marketing strategy... free food for your whole stay, or 25% off a base ticket? If you're staying for a week or so, those tickets are only 20-some dollars to begin with. There's not a lot of discount room there.

I doubt they'll change their price point or marketing efforts because two of their six major American parks had capacity crowds for two days this year.

For one or two summers in the mid-90s, Kennywood attempted that as well. It was 2 or 3 dollars cheaper to go Monday thru Thursday. Not sure why they quit.

Lord Gonchar said:
You'd probably be amazed at how well they know exactly how many people are coming on any given day.

Heavy rain or freezing ass cold precluded, we know almost exactly (+/- 1,000, I'd say) how many people will be in the park on any given day, including walk-ups. I imagine with on-site hotels that are booked in advance that Disneyparks knows with even less chance for error.

I can remember very few days in the past 20 years when we've been extremely busy or slow unexpectedly.

Exactly.

The only issue with raising the gate to engage "population control" is that you have to make up for the aggregate per cap spending. If the average family spends $100 in the park, and there are fewer families, you have to some how get them to spend $120 or something. Dynamic pricing is easy enough at the gate, but it's harder on food without dynamic menu signage, and damn near impossible on merchandise unless you have dynamic price tags on plush Mickey's.

I don't know...

WDW might be able to predict their crowds pretty accurately, but it is more of a problem for Disneyland which does a lot more local business. I know of one major park that only sets its schedule about a week in advance because attendance varies so tremendously based on outside influences including weather.

Then there is Kennywood which may know in advance how many bodies are going to be in the park, but apparently doesn't know how those bodies are going to behave, and so doesn't decide on closing time until *hours* before it happens... :)

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Or you raise prices just enough that the park fills to capacity, but you're not turning people away at the gate because you're pricing out the cheaper guests.

I think just the opposite. You'd probably be amazed at how well they know exactly how many people are coming on any given day.

Yeah, what kpjb said. A friend works at Disney (not in rides, in Finance), and he told me once when we first met that Disney knows exactly when they'll be busy and when they won't, that they have it worked down to a science. Now lets see if his comments about MLK weekend prove true ;).

Wait, I thought the stock response to "Will X Park be busy on this day?" was that there's no way to know how busy it will be. Now we're being told it's incredibly easy. Or is that just some line we throw out to ward off newbies? :)

It's always been incredibly easy - which is why we dismiss such newb questions with a flippant response. :)

Yeah, those of us that know don't ask, we go on non-busy days ;).

But seriously, you can never plan for factors like Rideman listed as the cause for DL being so busy. There is never a guarantee. Which is why I hope our trip next month isn't extremely busy ;).

For the record... Gonch and I are not the same person. I do not have his pretty blue eyes! ;)

That said...I again agree 100% with his take. The problem is simple. They LET TO MANY DAMN PEOPLE THOUGH THE GATES during the busy season. Direct quote/text from my father-in-law leaving Hollywood Studio's yesterday..."Best part of the day was our close parking spot." Direct text today: "Epcot done...hilight another great parking spot."

They have done Disney with us, so they know this experience is not the norm. They love it. Not this week. Think of all the first-timers that are at these parks this week! Disney is providing them with a HORRIBLE experience. Ask any of us who have been at Disneyland when it is so crowded they open the backlot trail behind Mainstreet USA so you can exit. We walk pass filled trash bins and unused Jungle Cruise boats, etc just to get out!

I think they are hurting their reputation by allowing so many guests through the door. The only acceptible/fair means of controlling demand is to raise prices. When you go to the Horseshoe for a Buckeye game, they do not stuff 250,000 into the stadium. They limit it to capacity. Disney has long ago let their capacity limits get out of hand. They need to put a stop to this non-sense!