Wagoner County calls off election for Bell's Amusement Park sales tax issue

Can't say I didn't tell you so.
Right now the mere mention of a new tax is Taboo

Which is pretty ironic since the vast majority of people paid less to the feds this year than they did the year before. In fact, it's the lowest average rates since 1950 (source).

Yeah, not sure why people don't see that. I got a kick ass refund this year.

Article looks at income taxes only. Not the litany of other taxes that folks pay. And the reasons cited for the decrease with respect to income taxes are basically the economy sucks so people are earning/spending less and the government provided handouts in an effort to make the economy less sucky. Not sure I view that as any indication that our overall tax burden should be higher (and indeed, assuming the economy recovers and folks start earning/spending more, tax cuts set to expire, expire and stimulus handouts stop (at some point, they have to stop, don't they?)), that tax percentage will increase automatically without adding any new taxes.

No, actually it doesn't. It calls out sales tax as well. As real estate values have bottomed out, so have property taxes as well.

I personally don't think tax cuts should be made at the federal level at all without regard to the debt. If I make less in a year, I pay less. I seem to be the only person in the US who is OK with the fact that, regardless of whose fault it is, we all have to play a role in reducing that debt. Sadly, that doesn't seem to be a priority in Washington.

The reference in the article to sales taxes is confusing. First it states that the percentage of regular income that folks are paying in federal, state and local "income" taxes has decreased. Then it says that one of the reasons for that is decreased sales taxes because folks are buying less. But sales taxes aren't income taxes. So either the percentage includes more than just income taxes or decreased sales taxes had nothing to do with the change.

But that sales taxes and real estate taxes have declined recently is more a result of the economy than tax policy so those declines say nothing about whether our tax burdens should be higher.

On the federal level, seems to me there isn't much of an option other than to both increase taxes and reduce spending (taking only one approach or the other would be disastrous). But until I see some interest in actually cutting spending in a meaningful way (something which is pretty much nonexistent in DC), I have a tough time supporting higher taxes. There also should be a requirement that everyone pays at least some nominal percentage of their income (say 5%) in federal income taxes. That we have upwards of 50% of the country who pays no income taxes makes no sense. Everyone is part of the system and should have some skin in the game.

Im not really complaining much about INCOME TAX its all the little taxes and hidden taxes out there thats absolutely killing everybody. If you look a the taxes you pay in total and the cost of products due to taxes on the companies how make them

50-65 percent of every dime you make is going to TAXES.
But they expect you to believe you are being taxed 7 percent (Average state) 21 percent federal and 1-2 percent local. and that is all............ Vehicle registrations have tripled, every license fine and fee have tripled in the last five years

WRONG! Have a bunch of kids, buy whatever gives tax credits this year and you pay less. Still. CUT SPENDING no reason for fifteen federal law enforcement agencies, 42 Federal child protection agencies ect. ect. Were spending 2.4 trillion and only taking in 1.7 trillion in all taxes (FED) A streamlined govt only doing what the constitution would allow it to do would be about 800 billion total.

Jeff said:
No, actually it doesn't. It calls out sales tax as well. As real estate values have bottomed out, so have property taxes as well.

I personally don't think tax cuts should be made at the federal level at all without regard to the debt. If I make less in a year, I pay less. I seem to be the only person in the US who is OK with the fact that, regardless of whose fault it is, we all have to play a role in reducing that debt. Sadly, that doesn't seem to be a priority in Washington.

Where have property taxes dropped? Nowhere in PA, I'll tell you that. Maybe revenues dropped because people didn't pay taxes on properties they were too far under on or that were being foreclosed. I don't know of any locality that reassessed every property and changed the tax rate as property values dropped the past 2-3 years. Considering that local government was one of the few sectors that showed an increase in employment during the recession, I doubt municipalities were going to volunteer to relinquish revenue.

I will agree that everyone has a part to play in reducing the debt. However, most people refuse to give up what they feel they are entitled to, and instead believe there is someone better off than they are who is simply not paying their fair share. People truly are ignorant about basic economics, and think that just printing more money will reduce our debt. If we don't get our asses in gear, we're headed down the same path as Greece, but most people probably refuse to believe that could happen either.

Charles Nungester said:
50-65 percent of every dime you make is going to TAXES.

That's the most made up and ridiculous "statistic" I've ever seen. Wow. My accountant is good enough to figure it out and print it for my records. Last year, my effective rate for the feds was 13.1%. Ohio was 2.5% (though I think that only counts for the time I lived in Ohio... Washington has no income tax). My property tax, which is in part a function of the house I choose to live in, amounted to about 3.5% of my income. Sales tax varies, but in most states doesn't apply to food. No one spends all of their money on taxable goods. I figure at most I paid 25% of my income to various taxes. And the more money you make, the more you can find ways to avoid taxes. Hell, my mortgage interest alone was an enormous deduction, not to mention contributions to IRA's, 401k, etc.

If your house value decreases, then so does your tax on it. Who cares if it's a result of a poor economy? This is about people complaining they pay too much. And interestingly enough, in areas like the one I lived in back in Ohio, the millage for any particular issue tends to decrease over time because the tax burden is spread across more and more property each year. A school bond issue we passed at one point started at 2.0 mils and was retired at 0.6. As for reappraisal, in Ohio you file a form with your county auditor and a board eventually does it.

I guess what annoys me is that we've become a culture of blame. Everyone wants to blame the feds, the black president, the banks, the auto companies, the Chinese... whatever. No one wants to do anything themselves to improve the situation, and it's become a culture of bitching victims. Government bashing is the latest fashion. I'm not saying it isn't in dire need of reform, but that's no more of a magic bullet than anything else.

And I think I'm pretty qualified to have my opinion. I went exactly seven months to the day without a job last year, and had to move thousands of miles and uproot everything I know to remedy the situation. But that's kind of the point... I'm doing something about it, even though I can directly attribute the poor economy back home to all of the things people bitch about.

Less bitching, more personal action. That's my platform. Vote for me!

Jeff said:
Everyone wants to blame the feds, the black president, the banks, the auto companies, the Chinese... whatever.

Heh.

Before that they blamed the stupid president. And before him they blamed the horny president. And before that they blamed wimpy president.

We are a culture of blame, but it's nothing new.

If you're going to be known as anything, I suppose being the black guy isn't so bad in the big scheme of things. :)

Presidents get the blame because they take credit for everything positive that happens under the sun and promise to end all of the worlds ills. And when positive things don't happen (whether or not the president had any power to make them happen) or presidents don't solve problems (because they can't), folks get upset. Nothing new there though politicians seem to promise a lot more and people seem to look to the government more now to solve their problems than when I was a kid not sure which came first).

I think we have too much of an entitlement society. Though maybe that is just the flip side of the blame coin.

I agree that they're largely the same coin. There's just generally too much "what's in it for me" sentiment.

One thing I will say that I find interesting, as my brother worked the Census last year and this, is that SO many people were against it this time. I dont' remember it being like that last time.

A quote from my brother, who is almost 40, was along the lines of "We've been doing the census for 200 years, and now that the president is black, everyone has a problem with it".

Why DIDN'T they blame the Horney and Wimpy presidents?!!??! ;)

I think it's because the President is a socialist Nazi who eats babies. At least that's what I've heard.

djDaemon said:
I think it's because the President is a socialist Nazi who eats babies.

And those are his good qualities.