Voyage Retracking

Thursday, November 30, 2006 12:23 PM
http://www.holidayworld.com/holiblog/2006/11/and-for-this-we-give-thanks.html

1,120 feet of track had to be replaced after it's first year of operation? Out of a total 6,442 feet in the entire ride? Is it me, or does this seem like a lot?


Will Koch said, in a HoliBlog post from April:

Particularly in the high-speed sections, where the ride could be marred by a bad shimmy, the train moves very well. And I'm optimistic that the steel structure (and thicker side steel) will help us to postpone major track work for a very long time.


So what exactly constitutes major track work? *** Edited 11/30/2006 5:24:14 PM UTC by Jeff Young***

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Thursday, November 30, 2006 12:32 PM
Still just another reason why they have good wooden coasters there. They actually work on them, any amount of wear and tear is not good for wood coasters, because if you have noticed it doesn't ride as well. Better that they work it over especially since the taller wooden coasters get beat up quicker with the sheer speed of these things, ie SOB or a mean streak.

Just good maintenence. I think that it will in other places have to be replaced, but i think that doing it for the sake of doing it to make it better is still the main reason they are doing it. Because i thought if it was not maintenenced well it would become bumpy a bit, because this thing is agressive. Good call by the Kochs to know the way a coaster like this should and is being treated. *** Edited 11/30/2006 5:34:19 PM UTC by MagnunBarrel***

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Thursday, November 30, 2006 12:56 PM
If Holiday world needs to retrack this much in the first year, how much will it cost Will Koch several years from now. Look at Beech Bend, one year into operation and it does not need to be retracked ANYWHERE. Hell Dollywood is in its third year of operation and it has not been retracked either. GCI builds "GREAT" coasters.
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Thursday, November 30, 2006 1:07 PM
I think it's more that GCII builds great trains. For what it's worth, Hersheypark's Wildcat, which runs PTC trains, has had some off-years. After some retracking, things on that ride were much better. I wonder what it would be like if it was running Millennium Flyers like the other GCIIs in the park??
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Thursday, November 30, 2006 1:07 PM
^^ But many could argue that those coasters don't come close to rides like Hades and The Voyage in intensity or fun factor.

To me, the out of control feeling and speed that The Voyage and Hades provide are much much more exciting than the twisty smoothness of GCI's. Yes it will take more money to maintain them, and yes they will need work more often, but they really are the most fun rides to many people. *** Edited 11/30/2006 6:07:40 PM UTC by RollrCoastrCrazy***

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Thursday, November 30, 2006 1:26 PM

RollrCoastrCrazy said:

To me, the out of control feeling and speed that The Voyage and Hades provide are much much more exciting than the twisty smoothness of GCI's.


I like a little of both ...that's why I'm glad Rumbler and TV are less than 2 hours apart from each other *AND* both less than 3 hours from me!

Not really any surprise about the retracking on TV. It's the most aggressive woodie I've ever experienced. If they were actually changing some of the layout, then I would be more surprised. I'm still not too crazy about the reverse banked curve out in the back, so it could lose that for all I care, but otherwise I LOVES it.

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Thursday, November 30, 2006 2:12 PM
I once heard this quote from someone who is very well versed in the industry.

"You are never done building a wooden coaster."

Looks like HW understands that.

~Rob Willi

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Thursday, November 30, 2006 2:24 PM
I'm pretty sure a troupe of Mexicans built The Voyage, not TGG. I agree with Scott that Hersheypark's Wildcat will kick your ass and feels like it needs a ton of work. Actually, I haven't been on a GCI that I'd consider "smooth" either.
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Thursday, November 30, 2006 2:39 PM
Jeff:

To me, lightning racer was one of the smoothest wooden coasters I ridden. To me the best wood coaster trains in the business, when it comes to overall comfort, safety, and tracking are the millenium flyer trains built by Great Coasters. The GCI ones that have PTC trains that I went on, Wildcat, Gwazi, and Roar East, seem relatively smooth. None I would consider rough. Just curious what GCI coasters you been on, since to me they are usually very smooth, especially the ones with their ownt trains on them.

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Thursday, November 30, 2006 3:35 PM
Everyone says coasters with M-Flyers are smooth, but from my experience, while these trains track extremely well, they are heavy and not really forgiving if the track gets bad enough. Anyone who has been on Roar west during its off times (before the seasonal retracking) will know what I'm talking about. If the track is crap, the trains won't fix it. However, it seems almost all, if not all, the M-Flyer equipped coasters seem to be excellently maintained.
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Thursday, November 30, 2006 3:47 PM
I wonder how much, if any, of the retracking is actually some off-season 'tweaking' to adjust the way the cars run on certain parts of the ride. I would imagine that the original trackwork is about five parts engineering, five parts construction, three parts guesswork, and one part pure black magic. Once the ride has run for a year, you know exactly how the train behaves and experience can be substituted for guesswork.

I don't actually know; it's just a guess on my part. But I rode The Voyage on Labor Day weekend, and unless it got significantly worse between then and the end of the season, I don't think there was 1,100 feet of track that felt like it could use any improvement. That distinction actually belonged to the Legend, which seemed to be in pretty miserable shape compared to the other two wood coasters*.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

* though still a lot better than wood coasters at certain other ParKs I can think of...

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Thursday, November 30, 2006 4:05 PM
I could see a lot of wear and tear in the turnaround, and especially in the section between the triple-down and the station where the laterals are strongest. The guide wheels had to be beating the lumber mercilessly there.

Dave, you've got me. i Personally Kannot Imagine whose wood you're talking about.

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Thursday, November 30, 2006 4:47 PM
What about 'settling'? I mean since most of this coaster was placed on undeveloped land, is it possible some of the supports settled, thus causing some unnecessary wear in the track?
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Thursday, November 30, 2006 7:21 PM
^ Excellent comment. Even if the ground was to shift half an inch, everything would change. I don't believe the track shifts as much from ground movement as for what the trains do to it, but the ground does play a serious part. I can only dream of ridding voyage becasue it is so far from where I live, however, if those trains run that aggresive then there is some serious pressure going on when it comes to voyages track. It would be interesting to know allt he things a maintenance guy is looking for when maintaining the track.

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Thursday, November 30, 2006 7:26 PM

SVLFever said:
What about 'settling'? I mean since most of this coaster was placed on undeveloped land, is it possible some of the supports settled, thus causing some unnecessary wear in the track?
Undeveloped land is going to be much more solid.
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Friday, December 1, 2006 12:08 AM
I am not being antagonistic Neuski, but please explain why.
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Friday, December 1, 2006 12:40 AM

SVLFever said:
What about 'settling'?

Which is why GCI uses cement slabs for their coasters.

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Friday, December 1, 2006 12:48 AM
Let me put it this way... Would you rather build a house on a hill that has been around for hundreds of years or a hill that I created yesterday with a bulldozer? Undeveloped land has never been touched therefore has naturally been packed year after year.

Aside from the developed/undeveloped debate, footers serve one purpose and I absolutely believe that those responsible made sure that these footers, and all other coaster footers, wouldn't move.

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Friday, December 1, 2006 1:38 AM

Jeff said:
I'm pretty sure a troupe of Mexicans built The Voyage, not TGG. I agree with Scott that Hersheypark's Wildcat will kick your ass and feels like it needs a ton of work. Actually, I haven't been on a GCI that I'd consider "smooth" either.

What do Wildcat and Voyage have in common? Why doesn't GCII use those anymore? Reason, Trackwork.

Answer: PTC.

Even though PTCs now have articulating rear axels they exert a twisting on the track simply due to their design(Wheelbase). (It's not PTC's fault really, The trains configureation have been around almost as longer than the Prior and Church trains which GCII's are patterned after.

Wanna see a woodie that blows every other woodie away in retracking? THE BEAST and it's braked to death. Latetly the helix gets retracked every other year if not more, several spots in it's low fan curves after the old midcourse are retracked twice a season.

Will knew the would be needed, It's also had trackwork durring the season as well.

Chuck, who's more than happy with the way Raven runs 11 years into it's lifetime :)

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Friday, December 1, 2006 2:09 PM
^^ Neuski, we undrstand that footer's will not move if cemented right, but even if they are laid right and the ground decided to move, around it, the footer would move to. When you poor a new foundation for a house, there are almost always crack's in the foundation in years to come becasue the foundation is trying to settle. My laneway was paved four years ago and there are now many cracks. This all depends were a poor is being laid also. My parents have a cottage on the Bruce Pennensula north of toronto, waterloo, london etc. It shares georgian bay and lake huron. If you were to lay a new house up there you would never see any cracks or movement becasue the ground is full of rocks. If you tried to put a shovel into the land up there you would more then likely hit a rock two inches into penetration. It all depends. I have no idea what the vegetation and/or environment is like were voyage lives. Like I said before, I have never been there and can only dream.

All this talk does not accomplish much since if the ground does shift and disturbes the coaster, it will do little damage. Fixing the track has almost nothing to do with the ground. In some cases though, if the ground does move it will create problems. Bottom line is that the ground and coaster need to work as one. The coaster will need more work from the abuse it takes through the ridding season.

I must add I can't believe some of you guys don't know more about what happens to wood with weather and temperature change. If it gets cold outside, wood will warp and become a completely different shape AND size. The thing's you learn about wood in shop class. I would try to find out if some of that would is splitting aswell and how cold that park gets through the off season.

*** Edited 12/1/2006 7:15:29 PM UTC by CoasterDiscern*** *** Edited 12/1/2006 7:16:20 PM UTC by CoasterDiscern***

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