Volcano's Brakes

Monday, November 3, 2003 3:58 PM
Are the brakes on volcano permanently in the braking position(like standard coaster brakes), or do they come down when the sensor knows the train is approaching the final drop? What about Dragster and Xcelerator?

After reading alot about the SROS incident I found out that it would take alot of force to get the train to move while in the brake zone. The brakes have to be retracted to get the train into the station. When Volcano brakes, it continues moving.

I hope what i'm asking makes sense.

Corey

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Monday, November 3, 2003 4:04 PM
Volcano has both if I am not mistaken. The brakes that stay in the fixed position are used as trim brakes before the train hits the retractable section at the end. The brakes at the launch area are retractable only, just like those found on all impulse coasters.

Dragster and Xcelerator use a very similar set up as far as retractable and permanent brakes go.

-Sean

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Tuesday, November 4, 2003 8:24 AM
As with all the Intamin rides that use LIMs to brake their vehicles...the cars can only be slowed if they are still moving (i know it sounds wierd, but follow me).

The motion of the cars fins passing thru the magnets makes a forcefield that slows the cars, if there is no motion, there is no braking force. The initial brakes can always be up (or down depending on the ride), because they have calculated that the train will not stop there, but simply slow down. The retractable area is used for places where they want the train to stop...ie ready breaks. When the block is clear, the breaks fall away (or rise) and the feeder wheels kick in moving the car along. In some cases, such as extra LIM's actually push the car forward instead of extra motors

It all gets a little complicated since impulses have LIMs that run in a launching mode as well as a braking mode. I imagine Volcano has more in common with a "standard" coaster such as Xcelerator or Millenium Force. But then theres the question of the difference between side mounted fins and bottom mounted fins and even the side-bottom mounted fins that are on California Screamin (which uses LIM's and standard braking).

Oye vay....maybe I shouldnt have replied to this post...hehe

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WDW College Program Alumni
=brandon=

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Tuesday, November 4, 2003 9:43 AM
Brandon,

Actually, with the impulse designs, I have seen trains totally stopped before the station, and once an all clear has been given, the trains move into the station with the power of the LIMs.

The LIMs on impulse coasters can stop the train as they can move the train a few inches slowly, and just stop working, making the train stop from a lack of LIM power. Since there is no gradual incline on the launch areas of impulse designs, those LIMs have to operate that way.

Volcano has a slight incline on its launch so if a train doesn't make it out of the Volcano, the retractable and non-retractable brakes slow the train to a crawl resulting in the train coasting very slowly through the brakes back into the launching position. Volcano and the new hydro launching coasters use basically the same braking set up.

California Screaming is a odd one. The fins that are used for the magnetic braking are located below the train and are only used on the LIM sections and small section of magnetic trims before the final brakes. The rest of the braking uses side friction brakes. My guess is Disney wanted full control over the trains at all times since magnetic braking won't totally stop a train.

I have also seen California Screaming launch at about 10mph, then coast to a stop, then go in reverse at about 5 mph and do the "impulse shuffle" just like a impulse train does when it is looking for a stoping point in the stations.

It was strange looking.

-Sean

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Tuesday, November 4, 2003 11:48 AM
Brandon - None of the coasters use LIM's for braking. You're mixing up two technologies.

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Be polite and ignore the idiots. - rollergator
"It's not a Toomer" - Arnold Schwartzenkoph
"Those who know don't talk and those who talk don't know." -Jeff

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Tuesday, November 4, 2003 11:53 AM

Coreo81 said:
Are the brakes on volcano permanently in the braking position(like standard coaster brakes), or do they come down when the sensor knows the train is approaching the final drop? What about Dragster and Xcelerator?

After reading alot about the SROS incident I found out that it would take alot of force to get the train to move while in the brake zone. The brakes have to be retracted to get the train into the station. When Volcano brakes, it continues moving.

I hope what i'm asking makes sense.

Corey


Intamin reversed the magnetic brake setup for their Rocket Coaster rides. Instead of having the magnets on the track (on or alongside it) with metal fins on the trains themselves, they placed permanant magnets underneath the trains and fixed the steel plates onto the track. This is a more reliable and foul-proof method of braking the trains. No moving parts involved. That's a big reason why the SROS have problems with collisions - because the retractable brake clamps don't activate in time or have errors and don't come down at all.

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Tuesday, November 4, 2003 3:08 PM
Then how exactly does Dragster launch if the fins don't retract? The brake fins on Dragster and Xcelerator retract on the launch to let the car pass, and they retract on the brake run once they have slowed the car down.

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-Dan
If you don't like the ride shut up and get out of line.

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Tuesday, November 4, 2003 3:11 PM
He's talking about the final breaks, not the save-from-rollback brakes on the launch. Notice that TTD is a full circuit, not a shuttle.


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« adix@nedesigns.com »
Raging Bull is best when you're first - 6/16/03
Deja Vu junkie since 10/19/03

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Tuesday, November 4, 2003 3:42 PM
on impluses isn't there a magnetic brake that retracts, but the LIMs have to do some stopping don't they or are the magnets that powerful?
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Thursday, November 6, 2003 7:47 AM
Volcano's breaks on the launch retract, the breaks once you enter the Volcano for unloading arn't retractable. They break depending on if a car is infront of them (usualy no), and the break run is at a slope to allow for the cars to be controlled as they progress.

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Love,
The Mole

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Thursday, November 6, 2003 1:48 PM
The break does all the breaking. The LIM's just shuttle the train back to station after it's stopped.

Mole: There's no controlling or depending. The brakes coming into the Volcano are always on "full blast." However, since they're magnetic, that means that they won't actually fully stop the train, ever. I would imagine there're kicker wheels on that break run to do the rest.

Everyone else: The switch on Dragster/Xcel to magnets on the trains has nothing to do with the retractiability of the breaks, nor the reliability. MF has the fins on the train and the magnets on the track and has both static and retractable brakes. Draggie and Xcel have fins on the track and magnets on the train and have both retractable and static brakes. I would imagine the reason is because it'd be a real pain in the butt to have the rows upon rows upon rows of magnets down the side of the track on Dragster as opposed to having lots of fins.

------------------
Be polite and ignore the idiots. - rollergator
"It's not a Toomer" - Arnold Schwartzenkoph
"Those who know don't talk and those who talk don't know." -Jeff

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Thursday, November 6, 2003 3:13 PM

ApolloAndy said:
I would imagine the reason is because it'd be a real pain in the butt to have the rows upon rows upon rows of magnets down the side of the track on Dragster as opposed to having lots of fins.

Either that, or perhaps those copper fins were less expensive.

Anyone know for certain?

-Sean

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Thursday, November 6, 2003 3:21 PM
That's more of what I meant by "pain in the butt" but maybe they're much harder to install and flop back and forth.

Edit: Actually, just thought of something.
Strong magnets tend to be pretty darn heavy, don't they? For the launch track, at least, you need to have a pretty quick response in order to get the rollback breaks in position and ready for a rollback. Anyone who's watched MF's or S:RoS's brakes in action knows that they don't have nearly the response time as the fins on the rockets.

Reconsideration of thought: The impulses and Volcano have magnets that move....

Rereconsideration: Maybe because on the inverts the magnets have to travel downwards in order to get into position and on the rockets they have to travel upwards? I know I'm stretching now....

------------------
Be polite and ignore the idiots. - rollergator
"It's not a Toomer" - Arnold Schwartzenkoph
"Those who know don't talk and those who talk don't know." -Jeff

*** This post was edited by ApolloAndy 11/6/2003 8:25:02 PM ***

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Thursday, November 13, 2003 4:48 AM
>Rereconsideration: Maybe because on the inverts the magnets have to travel downwards in order to get into position and on the rockets they have to travel upwards? I know I'm stretching now....<

You are totally correct - Intamin uses several braking modules on their impulses (eddy current brake = mageatic brake), which are moved downwards by a small pneumatic cylinder into braking position (it's an inverted coaster...). The "brake fins" at the cars are also used for acceleration.

I am also interested in another topic, which is closely related to the discussion: Volcano uses three trains on the circuit, so are there any kind of block brakes or safety brakes to get the train completely stopped throughout the circuit - in the case if there are two trains on the circuit simultaneously? I don't mean the final brake(s). I am asking, because magnetic brakes cannot be used in block brakes as safety brakes without a combination of the well known "friction"-technology. This has something to do with the issue, haiderodes talked about at the top of this thread. Note: I am interested in the existence of block / safety brakes (maybe after the first launch or before the second one), not the final brake section. Does anyone recognize, if Intamin uses friction brakes at this sections?

Cam

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Thursday, November 13, 2003 4:18 PM
Volcano uses three trains on the circuit, so are there any kind of block brakes or safety brakes to get the train completely stopped throughout the circuit - in the case if there are two trains on the circuit simultaneously?

Cam

When they run 3 trains one is in the loading station(or being launched), one is at the unload station, and the other is in the tunnel right before the unload station. I figured they bring the train to a complete stop by using the same means the Impulse coasters use on the vertical spike.

Corey

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Thursday, November 13, 2003 4:26 PM
are there any Intamin LIM propelled/braked rides with more than one train on the circuit at any give time? and when i say that i mean having more than one train moving freely at the same time, not on a lift or on a braking section.

from what i know, there arent any Intamin LIM/magnetic propelled/braked rides that have block brake sections to stop a train if the section ahead isnt clear.

The Vekoma launched rides all have standard friction brakes in these sections. Even the older Space Mountain attractions )which also use magnetic braking technology) also have a friction based system to stop vehicles at these points.

its just interesting to me to see that all these Intamin rides allow just one vehicle out on the course at a time....MF allows one out on the course with the others in the station or on the lift, Xcelerator has its trains in the station or somewhere where braking force can be applied, same with Dragster . The only one I can think of is California Screamin' and it has friction brakes at the block brake sections.

Interesting... *** Edited 11/13/2003 9:28:18 PM UTC by haiderodes***

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Thursday, November 13, 2003 4:43 PM
As mentioned above, you can't have only magnetic braking for a block brake because magnetic braking is incapable of completely stopping a train.
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