Vintage Magic Mountain Pics

Thursday, September 21, 2006 12:41 PM
Lord Gonchar's avatar

DWeaver said:
As a culture we've grown up, seen it all and gone to sleep.

Is it a case of culture growing up or individuals growing up? Or both?

I sometimes feel that way, but I tend to put more of the blame on myself than society or culture. I think things just don't seem as 'magical' in general as we grow older. Then again, I'm a cynical old bastard at the age of 33. :)

As far as the nostalgia thing (which I still don't get) - today's 'bad' new stuff is tomorrow's nostalgia.

To use Rob's Yankee Stadium example - sure it may seem like manufactured heart and soul, but I'd guess it has always felt that way when the old gets replaced with the new. A generation or two from now you'll hear the same sentiments expressed when the new stadium is replaced with a new new stadium.

Maybe I just look at the big picture too much?


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Thursday, September 21, 2006 1:17 PM
^ I personally don't have a problem with progress, things have to change, nothing at all ever stays the same, nor should it. My beef is when the replacement is inferior to the thing it replaced, too many new things today lack the quality and creativity of the original and are only done to introduce something new for the sake of new, which isn't always better.

DL's most recent remodel of Tomorrowland is a great example of crap replacing quality for the sake of simply introducing something new. SFMM also could have kept the quality family park offerings and just added to it instead of ripping it all out and replacing with just thrill rides. Not so much nostalgia, just bummed about the potential of what it could/should have been.

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Thursday, September 21, 2006 1:27 PM
A lot of today's amusement park chains are so focused on cutting edge attractions; they just run out of patience for yesterday's rides. They don't seem to have patience for that nostalgia, or the old rides returning to popularity.

Disneyland is a great example of a park holding on their classic rides and benefiting from that decision. However old and outdated their attractions maybe, they still add to the soul of the park, which is Disney's main attraction.

In the fashion industry things go out of style and so the clothes change, but then things come back in style in just a few years. In the amusement industry we are stuck with what we've got despite the shifts in focus.

With the emphasis on family now vs. thrills rides, many now wonder why they dismantled the nostalgic attractions that would have set an example for other Six Flags parks to follow. Instead Magic Mountain has become the lightening rod of disappointing decisions concerning many of today's amusement parks. *** Edited 9/21/2006 5:28:49 PM UTC by rc-madness***

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Thursday, September 21, 2006 1:57 PM
I would agree that Disneyland is often a good example of preserving the past while building for the future. BUt I disagree, RCmadness that much is old oroutdated at DL. They have been very good recently at completely refurbishing and enhancing old attractions to keep them up to date. The (1963) Tiki Room got a complete rebuild. Jungle Cruise (1955), Haunted Mansion (1969), Pirates (1967), and Space Mt. (1977) got updates, new parts, rebuilds, etc. so they are in great shape....almost like brand new.

At the same time though there are new things going in and going on all the time. I see no reason why other parks couldn't keep the charm they once had.

Many other parks had Disney like attractions. Parks like CP and several SF parks had boat rides full of animation, etc. Most are gone, and CP's is a shadowof it's former self. Many parks had GREAT dark rides....heck...CP had several dark rides at one point. Now, it seems good if a park just has a train, and a Ferris Wheel. *** Edited 9/21/2006 5:58:22 PM UTC by Peabody***


Real Cbuzz quote of the day - "The classes i take in collage are so mor adcanced then u could imagen. Dont talk about my emglihs" - Adamforce
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Thursday, September 21, 2006 2:08 PM
A lot of the things we're nostalgic for were called cold and soulless by a previous generation. I'm talking across our whole culture, not just amusements. For better or worse, everybody has their own reference point when it comes to "the good old days."
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Thursday, September 21, 2006 2:27 PM
Lord Gonchar's avatar Exactly the point I was trying to make, RGB. :)

If you can't sit through my typically long-winded crap, just read RGB's post. It's dead-on.


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Thursday, September 21, 2006 2:32 PM
Even though everybody bashes Mark Shapiro, From what he has been saying I think he could be the person to make Atleast the six flags properties more disney like and more like there former selves.

Anyway hopefully the bayville adventure park and bayville scream park being set up here on long island can fill the theming and dark ride void.

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Thursday, September 21, 2006 3:16 PM
Yes, Yankee Stadium is being replaced. They broke ground for the new one a few weeks ago, which is going to rise on the site of a park adjacent to the current ballpark. Once completed for the 2009 season, the House That Ruth Built will be "un-built" and a park will be built on the site to replace the one that the new stadium is going to remove. The new stadium is supposed to feature a lot of popular features from the current stadium like the famous copper facade, the original entrance, Monument Park and the same field dimensions but I fear the new ballpark will look nice but won't feel like Yankee Stadium.

You bring up a good point Gonch but don't forget about all those concrete bowls and domes that were all the rage in the late 60's and early 70's. It seemed like every city wanted to build something that could accomodate football and baseball and that led to cookie-cutter facilities like Three Rivers Stadium, Fulton County Stadium and The Vet. People thought they were a great idea at the time- they replaced all those "tired old ballparks"- but look what happened. Now cities are getting rid of those bowls and domes and replacing them with football and baseball-specific facilities that, very often, resemble the old ones from years ago.

Sometimes today's new stuff is tomorrow's nostalgia, but sometimes today's new stuff is tomorrow's junk.

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Thursday, September 21, 2006 3:20 PM
Lord Gonchar's avatar

Sometimes today's new stuff is tomorrow's nostalgia, but sometimes today's new stuff is tomorrow's junk.

And the only difference between the two is personal opinion. ;)

EDIT - Let me qualify that rather than leaving with a glib one-liner.

It's funny that you mention Three Rivers Satdium because I almost did. If there were a sports park I could even be remotely nostalgic about (and you know my take on the subject) it would be Three Rivers.

That's the stadium were I first went to ballgames with my dad and his buddies. That's the stadium where I saw the Steelers have Super bowl winning seasons and the Pirates win the Series in front of the TV as a kid. That's the stadium that we were so excited to be invited to play at in High School band (oh god, now I'm an admitted band geek) for Steeler games.

It may have been a junk to many but it has more relevance and meaning in my life than Forbes Field ever would or will.

But you know what? They replaced it with PNC Park and Heinz field. I've watched the Steelers have a Super Bowl winning season at Heinz and someday down the road when I'm old and gray and make my way back to PNC to see the buccos, I'll sigh and smile at the memories of taking the kids there and trying to explain the game to my perpetually sports-retarded daughter or the smile on my son's face when the firworks go off after a HR.

Moreso than, "Sometimes today's new stuff is tomorrow's nostalgia, but sometimes today's new stuff is tomorrow's junk" - I thinka truer statement is, "One man's junk is another man's nostalgia and vice versa"

I'm wondering how many people were pissed when the Yankees were forced to leave the polo grounds and damned the new stadium.

Seems like a case of history just repeating itself. Things have to move on. Nostaligia is just a matter of perspective. Truly, one man's junk is another's treasured memory.

*** Edited 9/21/2006 7:35:42 PM UTC by Lord Gonchar***


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Thursday, September 21, 2006 3:28 PM
Sure it is, but popular opinion seems to dictate how that goes. Maybe some people are nostalgic for concrete bowls but when the majority of people feel they were a mistake, I consider that to be definitive.
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Thursday, September 21, 2006 3:58 PM
Lord Gonchar's avatar You replied while I was making my edit. See my above post. :)

But on the subject of popular opinion, couldn't it be argued that popular opinion changes as well and in turn renders the old 'nostalgia' obsolete? I think that's kind of what I'm getting at. I'm not even arguing that popular opinion has nothing to do with, but rather that popular opinion changes too.

I believe that change drives popular opinion rather than popular opinion driving change.


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Thursday, September 21, 2006 5:01 PM

Lord Gonchar said:

Sometimes today's new stuff is tomorrow's nostalgia, but sometimes today's new stuff is tomorrow's junk.

Seems like a case of history just repeating itself. Things have to move on. Nostaligia is just a matter of perspective. Truly, one man's junk is another's treasured memory.


DL again provides a great example, many of the original 51yr old quality attractions still operating have some of the longest lines in the park. Had they remained completely unchanged and never updated whatsoever, (or plussed as Disney calls it), they would absolutely be considered junk and outdated today. But over the years, instead of just ripping em out for something new for the sake of new, Disney just plussed what was already there, adding new efx, storylines, technology, etc. to sustain or improve the quality, keeping them relevant.

So it's not so much I want SFMM to be like it was back when I was kid, just wish they had "plussed" and updated what quality was already there, not rip it all completely out for the inferior mess it became. All us old farts that were there remember what a fun place it used to be, just unfortunate that the solid family park foundation was completely strip-mined from SFMM. Make sense? I think there's a big different from wishing it was still exactly like it was back then. Far from it, only wishing the original spirit and intention of a great family fun park was still there.

*** Edited 9/21/2006 9:08:49 PM UTC by jomo***

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Friday, September 22, 2006 10:53 AM
I thinks jomo makes a great point. When old attractions are removed from a park, in a sense the park is removing a piece of their fan base they may have relied upon for years. Hence they become increasingly reliant on new fans coming to the park.

Should a park reinvent itself with a totally new set of attractions, not only do they cut themselves off from the generations of families that have grown up with the park, their new fans are not loyal and will not stick around for the growing pains of the park. Magic Moutain looks and feels completely different then in years past.

There is not an infinite group of new fans out there. Most of the types of people who like to go to parks already do, so it just becomes increasingly difficult to attract new groups of people. Discarding your fans seems like a park killing plan to me.

I think Disney banks on this strategy of building on the familiar while holding onto the nostalgic, which is why families return to their parks generation after generation. All the characters, theming, it's all nostalgic and familiar. Even when things change at Disney parks, they seem familiar. The verdict is out on whether it works or not, cause Disney makes a killing.

Or look at MacDonalds who starts kids early with the play ground in the back, they grow up knowing the burgers taste just like they did ten years ago and that's why people keep coming back. People love to count on things being there when they return, and they get offended when things are changed. Nostalgia, routine, touchstones, old-standbys, call them what you will, but they are the cornerstone of any successful park.

Should it be Magic Mountain's goal to reconnect with their own fan base, then they should announce how their bringing some of the nostalgia back, while adding a few new family attractions. Here is where some of these vintage photos could be useful in an add campaign, with the slogan "even better than before." Or something like that. The fan base is still there, they just feel they've been run out of the park. Some sort of gesture needs to be put out to win them back.

This seems to be what Shapiro has talked about, and he has fought for control of this company so he can turn things around. Yet, he hasn't lifted a finger for the life of this park. So ya, I question his motives. *** Edited 9/22/2006 3:56:04 PM UTC by rc-madness***

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Friday, September 22, 2006 11:20 AM

Lord Gonchar said:


It's funny that you mention Three Rivers Satdium because I almost did. If there were a sports park I could even be remotely nostalgic about (and you know my take on the subject) it would be Three Rivers.

That's the stadium were I first went to ballgames with my dad and his buddies. That's the stadium where I saw the Steelers have Super bowl winning seasons and the Pirates win the Series in front of the TV as a kid. That's the stadium that we were so excited to be invited to play at in High School band (oh god, now I'm an admitted band geek) for Steeler games.



Seems like a case of history just repeating itself. Things have to move on. Nostaligia is just a matter of perspective. Truly, one man's junk is another's treasured memory

Again, very true. All I'm saying is that when the majority of people tend to feel the same way, that seems to be the "accepted" mentality.

And with that, I forget what point I was trying to make!

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