Valvarn Layout

Thursday, September 17, 2015 5:54 PM

I was looking at the layout of of Valvarn at Cedar Point, and, I was talking with another coaster enthusiast, who seems to think that the new coaster is void of any theme. Does anyone else agree?

One thing he mentioned, and I think is missing from the ride, is that the first drop is missing the tunnel. I think an oblivion like tunnel at the bottom of the first drop, or even the second vertical drop, would give the ride what seems to be a vertical drop coasters best feature. It's location alone, looks bare of anything but concrete and coaster.

I feel this not only because of the lack of scenery, but look at all that is being demolished of removed to put this ride in. take for example the theater. Imagine how much cooler it would be to spare a portion of the theater, and incorporate the layout of the ride into the shell of the theater. Maybe leave portions of it up, and use those portions to design a castle like feature to theme the ride. Make it look like ancient ruins or something. Another comment is no water splash, that also appears to go hand in hand with a vertical coaster.

It seems odd to me that the park goes out of it's way to theme some rides, and others are just plopped where they fit. It seems to me, they would do more to make their record breaking coaster more appealing, then just breaking records. Take Maverick for example. One of the best themed coasters in the park. Why not give this new ride the same attention?

Other parks seem to have it right. And, being the biggest amusement park in the world, you would think more care would be given to what their claim to fame.

I'm not saying it's a bad coaster, it looks like it would be a great ride. Just think it could be better. Another comparison is Holiday World's Thunderbird. Look at what they did with that. Great Ride, with great scenery.

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Thursday, September 17, 2015 6:00 PM

Aw, jeez.
First of all, it's Valravn....

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Thursday, September 17, 2015 6:12 PM

Timber-Rider said:

... the new coaster is void of any theme.

Like most of Cedar Point's coasters.

I think an oblivion like tunnel at the bottom of the first drop, or even the second vertical drop, would give the ride what seems to be a vertical drop coasters best feature. It's location alone, looks bare of anything but concrete and coaster.

I'd say that what seems to be a vertical drop coaster's best feature is the vertical drop. If a tunnel is its best feature, it can't be much of a ride.

Bare of anything but concrete and coaster... and walkways, and benches, and grass, and whatever the company has penciled in for the area.

I feel this not only because of the lack of scenery, but look at all that is being demolished of removed to put this ride in. take for example the theater.

Some look and see what was removed. I see space that can be utilized in coming years. Just because it's a broad expanse of grass in 2016 doesn't mean it'll be a broad expanse of grass in 2019 or 2022. Especially if the oft-lusted for by enthusiasts destruction of Cedar and moving of Perimeter Road occurs.

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Thursday, September 17, 2015 6:18 PM

I'm guessing the issue with a tunnel is one of two possible problems, being on a peninsula and all:

1) The water table is so high that building and reinforcing a tunnel to go deep enough for a 70mph pullout is cost prohibitive, if not almost impossible.

2) The land is solid rock. Like granite, or the like, (sorry, I'm not a geologist.) Building a tunnel through solid rock to go deep enough for a 70mph pullout is cost prohibitive, if not almost impossible.

However, count me in the camp that thinks a splashdown would be neat.

Edit, in response to Slither: I do think a tunnel, still taken vertically, only enhances the diving effect. You really get the "ground rushing up at you" feeling that way. A lot of that effect can be lost by having to start the pullout too early. Look at TTD, for example. Another example would be the Intamin drop towers that pass through a roof structure before the brakes kick in.

Last edited by Tommytheduck, Thursday, September 17, 2015 6:22 PM
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Thursday, September 17, 2015 6:28 PM

Hey Slithernoggin. I did think about future construction around the ride. If it is anything like what they have done with Michigan's Adventure's bare areas, I predict it will be surrounded by portable stalls and games in the near future. They may even have an abundance of them from day one.

One thing that I do feel is good about the ride, is that it appears that it will create a much needed path to Blue Streak from the other end of the main midway. Blue Streak has sat by itself in the corner for years, with the only other excitement around there being the Calypso, with only one way in, and one way out. Maybe they will do something with that big slab of space between Blue Streak and the Raptor. They could easily fit a good flat ride there.

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Thursday, September 17, 2015 6:39 PM

Tommytheduck: No argument on a tunnel enhancing the drop. Just saying a tunnel shouldn't be the "best" feature of a coaster.

Timber: Cedar Point and Michigan's Adventure are different parks that get different levels of investment. (Insert your favorite Michigan's Adventure Never Gets Anything Ever thread here.) What may happen around "Valvarn" in coming years will not involve portable stalls and games, I think.

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Thursday, September 17, 2015 6:47 PM

Tommytheduck said:

reinforcing a tunnel to go deep enough for a 70mph pullout is cost prohibitive, if not almost impossible.

That's what she.... nah, too easy.

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Thursday, September 17, 2015 6:55 PM

Hey Tommy. A tunnel doesn't have to be dug into the ground. The Beast and Magnum both have above ground tunnels, as does Millennium Force. The caverns on Maverick are above ground as well. It would not be that hard to build something unique to the ride. Look at the Demon at Six Flags Great America. Tunnels and rock formations were added to the redesign, and people loved it. It also enhanced the ride experience.

Grand Rapids at Michigan's adventure was nothing but a grass field, and the park spent 5 million dollars doing a great job with turning grassland into man made canyons, and putting in waterfalls where there was nothing but bare sand. All built above ground. Another example would be the Stunt Coaster clones. It's not that themes can't be accomplished, more that park management has to have the desire to theme them. It can be done.

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Thursday, September 17, 2015 7:06 PM

Knowing all the while this will fall on deaf ears....

Timber-Rider said:

It's not that themes can't be accomplished, more that park management has to have the desire to theme them.

Businesses don't spend money based on desires. Aside from the desire to increase profits.

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Thursday, September 17, 2015 10:00 PM

Apparently they thought theming Maverick would increase profits.

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Thursday, September 17, 2015 10:14 PM

RCMAC said:

First of all, it's Valravn....

If you have an erection longer than four hours after taking Valvarn, seek medical attention.

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Thursday, September 17, 2015 10:48 PM

Captain Hawkeye said:

Apparently they thought theming Maverick would increase profits.

True that. My post there was aimed at T-R's inclination to think Cedar Fair bases spending on sentiment, not sound business principles.

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Friday, September 18, 2015 12:45 AM

That was a well thought out initial post, Timber-rider.

Maverick was themed because it was placed into one of the only themed areas of the park. Not theming it would ave been a very bad move. A plopped down ride in that area would have stuck out like a sore thumb.

Valravn can get away with not having theming because most of the rides in the park are minimally themed in the same way. It's like the Cedar Point brand.

I kept coming to the conclusion that Valravn didn't ave an underground tunnel because of the water table, but you are right. They could have made a hill for the bottom of the drop to tunnel through. Maybe they didn't do that more because of insurance and not because of cost? Perhaps?

A splashdown would have been awesome! Cedar Fair did it with Diamondback, so why not with Valravn? Maybe the splashdown on Diamondback has given them problems? Perhaps?

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Friday, September 18, 2015 3:37 AM

How has Timber-Rider been a teenager for more than a decade? I mean, I couldn't even make it through the original post before replying to this nonsense.

Not to say that the ride wouldn't benefit from a few enhancements, but come on. We don't need to complain about the things we don't have on a ride that hasn't been built yet.

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Friday, September 18, 2015 10:42 AM

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Friday, September 18, 2015 12:31 PM

LostKause said:

That was a well thought out initial post, Timber-rider.



No, it really wasn't.

You can't be nice to 100% of the people 100% of the time. You sometimes have to tell it like it is.

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Friday, September 18, 2015 1:17 PM

I personally would rather stand right next to a coaster's first drop and watch it go by, really really fast. That experience to me is better than a 1.5 second long fake tunnel.

And oh my, this constant chatter of "theme" at Cedar Point. Really, folks, it's not a theme park and doesn't have to be. (have I said this before?)
Aren't we perfectly happy with Magnum, Raptor, Gatekeeper, Gemini, and Blue Streak? They somehow manage to entertain millions each summer without a themed element in sight. It's how the park does and will always do things. Rides like TTD and Maverick extend the experience slightly with attractive and name-appropriate stations, but even those rides are hardly what I'd call immersive.
But ok, let's say the park goes along with a menacing bird theme, whatever that would be. Let's imagine a huge castle structure or a cave, or... What? Anyway, I can just hear it. "The Cadillacs and Cedar Downs are right there, so the whole thing's ruined." "yeah but you can still see the lake" "the tunnel needs to go 20 feet underground" and whatever other weenie complaints are bound to surface. Someone's gonna be unhappy.

I liken the park more so to some of Europe's best amusement parks. Places like Tivoli, Liseberg, Blackpool and Prater offer a wonderful mix of rides, food, gardens, and architecture that are surprising and delightful. They excel at scattered, mild theming that varies from attraction to attraction. Or not. It doesn't matter at a place like that. Cedar Point already does a fine job at what they do, and I don't get the complaints.

And I should add that while everyone here and all along the rest of the Internet are entitled to their opinions and dreams, I'm here to respectfully disagree.

Last edited by RCMAC, Friday, September 18, 2015 2:17 PM
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Friday, September 18, 2015 1:41 PM

Sometimes the wheels fall off of Cedar Point's attempts at theme. Literally.

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Friday, September 18, 2015 2:57 PM

^ you just made my day

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Friday, September 18, 2015 10:05 PM

Raven-Phile said:

LostKause said:

That was a well thought out initial post, Timber-rider.

No, it really wasn't.

You can't be nice to 100% of the people 100% of the time. You sometimes have to tell it like it is.

I enjoyed his post a lot. It got me thinking, and within the replies I actually gained a few new insights. I think sometimes people read the name of the author of the post, and make up their mind as to how they want to react before actually reading the whole post.

We don't have to punch Timber-Rider in the face every time he's here.

I swear it's like Mean Girls in here sometimes. LOL

Last edited by LostKause, Friday, September 18, 2015 10:05 PM
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