US troops may use enemy fighters to clean up amusement park

Man, I thought this was an ARN&R article when I first saw the headline. ;)

I know... real change of pace from beating up prisoners. the US is in dire need of something positive right now in Iraq, because all we're doing is reinforcing the dislike of Americans in most of the Middle East.

...all we're doing is reinforcing the dislike of Americans in most of the Middle East.

...according to mainstream media, that is. Here's a blog I've been reading from Iraq: http://noleftturns.ashbrook.org/ written by columnist Robert Alt. While it's got a conservative slant, it does tell about a lot of the good things we're doing over there, and how we're being received.

FYI, the reason I know about this blog is that Alt is embedded with the troops led by one of my best friends (Lt. Barry Naum, mentioned in a few blog entries).

No one debates that we've done good things there. However, Americans can't seem to see the point of view from the rest of the world, and it interfers with our leaders' judgement.

There are enough Iraqi blogs out there that paint a far worse picture than any "media" has. If anything, the media (especially Fox) engages in too much flag waving.

The media engages in flag waving? Man, that's just nonsense. Sorry.

No, seriously... Fox had a flag graphic waving in the corner of the screen during the bulk of the war. Maybe they still do.

I dont see how it could possibly be a bad thing to wave a flag while our country is at war

Are we talking about the rest of the world like every Arab country who did not have one leader step up and denounce the beheading of Berg while just days earlier making a public denouncement of pictures of abuse? Hmm…the pictures warranted public outcry while a beheading warranted silence. Maybe some Americans do see other countries points of views and have decided than many of their views are not intellectually honest and worth consideration. While I could go on a tirade of the many mistakes made with the current conflict (or whether we should be there or not), I hope that everybody keeps a level head about whom the real enemy is. It is certainly not Fox news or a flag. It seems disheartening that some would like to interject comments about prisoner abuse into an amusement park article without even mentioning the abuses American’s have suffered (beheadings, charred bodies hung from bridges, planes into buildings, etc). Maybe this was an honest oversight. It certainly seems insensitive in time like these (and we know how easily offended some people get)! In fact dare I say that mentioning prisoner abuse while ignoring beheadings would be much more biased commentary than you could find on one of those slanted organizations like…say Fox News. I agree Fox waves the flag too much, but ABC is nothing but a wing for the political left. No need to start a flame. I think all intellectually honest people know which networks lean which way and choose our viewing patterns according to our particular likes and views.

P.S. Before I'm accused of politicizing an argument on this board and have my post locked/removed I would like to make it clear that I’m merely responding to others that have chosen to make a political statement on this board. I offer my views as good old-fashioned counterbalance. I hope the chronically offended can keep their emotions of disagreement in check and choose to debate on logic rather than pure partisan emotion, as is so often the case on CB! I welcome disagreement. In fact, this is the reason I love the USA and the flag. :-)

I also thought at first that this headline was a joke. then i read it nd felt that this was mostly just propaganda, but this propaganda can be understood because of the rash of recent uprisings. If this helps protect even one of our soldiers I feel that it is completely worth it. I understand the way that many feel about the war and that we shouldnt be there, but if we were to pull out now the criminals that attacked Nick Berg (of whom im a fellow West Chester resident) or their counterparts would be the ones to fill in the power vaccum left behind from Saddam, then the coalition.

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No, seriously... Fox had a flag graphic waving in the corner of the screen during the bulk of the war. Maybe they still do.

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Well, last time I checked it wasn't wrong to wave the flag. Good for Fox...and I'll continue to watch. Look, its a war and people are going to die. I'm proud to live in this country and it rips my heart that there can be so many people against the very things our country stands for, let alone our troops. Imagine if the same attacks and untrust for our leaders happened during World War I or II.

I just hope to God you vote, and if you don't...SHUT UP.

Fair.... unbalanced. Hehe.

I have to admit it irritates me a bit when people pretend other networks are to the left as Fox is propaganda for the right. As if ABC News has ever ran anything as slanted as what Fox runs daily. Or as if any other news network used the kind of adjectives Fox uses to describe people they disagree with (i.e: people to the left, terrorists, and child kidnappers usually get the best negative adjectives; I think in that order of most virulent hatred to least).

And um... what does our country stand for, exactly? Raping and murdering Iraqi prisoners because some freaky CIA guys came in and told you to (rumor is it goes straight to Rumsfeld, have fun spinning that)? Or maybe our country stands for attacking another country without international support and without them attacking us first? Or maybe, even better, our country just stands for a Republican house, senate and president running the country straight into the ground. I'd be laughing even more at you guys if you weren't butchering people. Plus I have to buy gas this summer. :-/

First off, news is supposed to be news. Flag waving in the news is about as bad as having a state controlled "news" source, i.e., Iraqi TV for the last few decades. Neither tells you what's going on. Try reading al-Jazeera once in awhile, because while also far from being balanced coverage, it sure offers perspective. Americans need a lot of that.

And if ABC is part of some leftist conspiracy, they obviously didn't get the memo during the whole Lewinsky/impeachment thing.

If you blindly accept and follow the actions of your government and don't question anything that goes on, you're a danger to your society. Get as much information as you can and then form an opinion.

I think it would be nice to see some fair and balanced reporting on CB. We’ll let the readers decide which is a worse offense. Is it “beating up prisoners” or is it “abuses American’s have suffered (beheadings, charred bodies hung from bridges, planes into buildings, etc).” I fail to see the moral equivalence of the acts performed. I’m even more confused how those that are so upset by the supposed slant of Fox News could so slant their comments and take the time and effort to illustrate the atrocities of the prison abuse and complain about too much flag time on a network while at the same time completely ignoring the cold blooded murder and body abuses, even AFTER given opportunity to correct the record. At first I thought it was a simple oversight. Now I guess some just have an agenda to push that includes bashing America for its wrongs while giving others a free pass. As supposedly slanted as Fox News is, I have never seen it taken to such extremes as some of the posters on CB do when trying to push their political agenda.

To defend this site, this is not a news site, and people's opinions are just that. It doesn't have to be fair and balanced here. Jeff doesn't even have to let your posts stay up, but he does, as long as things are civilized. But he's allowed his opinion also.

Jeff, when you used the term flag-waving, I didn't think you meant the literal flag waving that Fox does on the screen. That being said, I still don't think there's anything wrong with an American network proudly displaying its origins. As a whole, however, the American media has not been participating in any flag-waving. Just the opposite, most of the media has been participating in negating in whatever good that is happening in Iraq. The prisoner abuse scandal is a good example. Sure, the people have a right to know, but I really don't feel the need to show pictures of naked Iraqi prisoners on my TV screen day-after-day. I get the point, bad things happened. I also know that there was already an investigation into this long before the media leaked it. I also know that some of the pictures (at least the ones that appeared in the Daily Mirror, were faked). I think the constant bombardment on the US public of these kinds of news stories detract from the our efforts to genuinely improve things there and lower the morale of our soldiers. They also can contribute to the dangers our soldiers face everyday. (I am not however trying to sound like an ad for W however, ask anyone who knows me, I'm not a big fan of either presidential candidate this year).

Anyway, its nice to have a political debate now and then. I hope it stays civil. Back on topic, its also a nice thing to try and get that park up and running again. I don't think it has anything to do with recent occurrences however. Most likely, its either always been somewhere in the plan or someone just thought it might be a good idea. Hope it works out.

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Now I guess some just have an agenda to push that includes bashing America for its wrongs while giving others a free pass. As supposedly slanted as Fox News is, I have never seen it taken to such extremes as some of the posters on CB do when trying to push their political agenda.

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Any time you use the term "agenda," I get the feeling you're implying something sinister.

Americans are generally selective about what they're willing to consume in terms of politics and our place in the world. How else can you explain that we're doing exactly nothing in Sudan, where hundreds of thousands of people are becoming the victims of "ethnic cleansing?" There you have a government that has no "WMD" and could be easily taken down, where there's no shortage of proof that people are dying at the hand of its military. For some reason, we've not fired a single shot there.

Not sure how people are OK with that...

Jeff:

Sad part of all of this is that there is probably a lot we agree about in terms of Iraq (notice I said I could argue whether we should even be there or not). I even gave credit to your claim that Fox wags the flag too much. I’m an independent thinker who dislikes both political parties in case you care.

I still have a hard time taking you serious when you have yet to give any credit to an opposing viewpoint. For at least the 3rd time---I’ll spell it out again. You responded to an amusement park message with this remark:

“I know... real change of pace from beating up prisoners.”

You are a smart enough man to know you are flaming when you make a statement like this and offer zero counterbalance or discussion. I’ve given you every opportunity to moderate your views and respond in kind. This is the reason I said that maybe it was an oversight. For whatever reason, you have made a choice to dig in and expand the discussion to your definition of “agenda” and the evils of “Fox News.” I’m not all that interested in those subjects. I merely responded to the flame.

You still have yet to denounce the actions of the terrorists that I’ve spelled out before. You have a right not to. But by my definition of “agenda”, you certainly have one when you so stubbornly refuse to concede that an opposing view has merit.

I don’t have an issue with your right to do this nor do I disagree with the other poster that says CB has different standards than a news organization. I’m just giving my opinion as I always try to do. I believe my discussions have been much more fair and balanced as I have attempted to concede points that you and others have made while offering counter opinion. We’ll let the readers decide who has an agenda on this issue!

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000517184

Ran across this story published yesterday (5/23/04). I offer this as objective evidence that the national news media on a whole leans to the left. While certainly others can and do have differing opinions, it seems that the objective data would back my opinion. I'm open to opposing data though.

"At national organizations (which includes print, TV and radio), the numbers break down like this: 34% liberal, 7% conservative. At local outlets: 23% liberal, 12% conservative. At Web sites: 27% call themselves liberals, 13% conservatives."

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I still have a hard time taking you serious when you have yet to give any credit to an opposing viewpoint.

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Uh, why am I obligated to do that? I don't understand your point. So what if I want to take the discussion in a particular direction? I can't even identify your point, let alone respond to it. Yeah, I made an inflammatory statement. You provided exactly the response I expected.

And which part of the beheading was "silent?" My God, it was on the cover of every newspaper and the lead story of every single newscast when it happened. The abuse scandal is getting more press because it's not what we as Americans are supposed to do. We're better than that. The further we go down that road, the more we become the bad guys.

And I don't care how people in the "media" label themselves. The bulk of the "media" reports what happens. I'm looking here at the headlines on ABCnews.com, and it sure appears that everything they're reporting on actually happened. I don't know how that makes anyone part of some liberal conspiracy.

I guess it is too hard for some to understand the "point" that Arabs beheading people and hanging charred bodies just MIGHT be considered a little more severe than some sexual photos!

I've said nothing about a liberal conspiracy though it appears you may think Fox News is in on some conservative conspiracy. I merely think that ABC (the worst offender), CBS, NBC, and CNN tend to have a left leaning worldview while Fox New has a right. I look at the news knowing which slant I’m getting. Just like I know I’ll get a left leaning post from you Jeff as you’ll get a right leaning post from me! When you are to the left the center is right. When you are on the right the center is left. I’m comfortable with where I stand. I don't try to hide my views or where I come from. I know I generally have right leaning views for most issues, but certainly not all. I’m comfortable debating and granting point/counterpoint. In fact I enjoy other viewpoints, even yours Jeff. I would never want to live in a world where everybody agreed and tried to censor other viewpoints. I try not to let myself become one of the chronically offended. That would be un-American.

I'm glad I could respond to your flame in a way you expected. Are flames allowed now?