Unrealistic Expectations...
I read these comments this morning and it blew me away. Time for us all to get things back in perspective don't cha think?
Unrealistic Expectations
Posted By: bullwinkle
Date: 8/13/00 15:42
After reading about umpteen million posts in several
venues on what the general public expects their
regional parks to build, it's clear that most
enthusiasts have become unhinged by millennium
rides like SoB, MF, Goliath, and SD 2000. Let's
just take a sampling of the consensus. When PKD
announced Hypersonic, it was met with a chorus of
boos, a ride that was once lusted after fell out
of favor in MF's large shadow. It's just a prototype they screamed! It never occured to anyone that
TA2K must crawl before it can fly!
KW's Phantom's Revenge didn't fare much better,
probably because the more gullible believed some
of the ridiculous rumors floating around that
KW was about to build a record-setter that would
demolish MF and SD 2000. The fact that KW lacked
the financial resources to build such a coaster
wasn't even considered by those who wanted to believe
it. SoB, MF, and Goliath were built by three of
the richer parks in the U.S., backed by deep
pockets, with high attendance.
SDC's B&M Sit-down, Wildfire, has hardly been
mentioned because it doesn't break any records
or boast the tallest this, or longest that. The
fact that it might be a superior ride to any number
of record-holders is irrelevant. Bigger has become
better. Is MF a great coaster, or a great big hill?
Coaster nuts now expect parks to build MF's and
SD's every year! No seasonal American park could
recoup a SD 2000-type investment ($54 mil.!) in
less than five-years (and by then, the same
people who screamed for it will have grown bored
with it and demand something else.) Fujiyama
stood unchallenged fo 礀攀愀爀猀Ⰰ 猀漀 搀漀渀✀琀 戀攀 猀甀爀瀀爀椀猀攀搀 㰀戀爀㸀椀昀 匀䐀 爀攀洀愀椀渀猀 琀栀攀 爀攀挀漀爀搀ⴀ栀漀氀搀攀爀 昀漀爀 愀 氀漀渀最 琀椀洀攀⸀ 㰀戀爀㸀 㰀戀爀㸀匀漀洀攀 瀀攀漀瀀氀攀 猀琀椀氀氀 琀栀椀渀欀 䌀倀 椀猀 戀甀椀氀搀椀渀最 礀攀琀 㰀戀爀㸀愀渀漀琀栀攀爀 䔀ⴀ吀椀挀欀攀琀 爀椀搀攀 渀攀砀琀 礀攀愀爀℀ 倀攀漀瀀氀攀 戀攀氀椀攀瘀攀 㰀戀爀㸀琀栀椀猀 最愀爀戀愀最攀 愀渀搀 攀砀瀀攀挀琀 琀栀攀 甀渀攀砀瀀攀挀琀攀搀 戀攀挀愀甀猀攀 㰀戀爀㸀琀栀攀礀 栀愀瘀攀 愀氀洀漀猀琀 渀漀 甀渀搀攀爀猀琀愀渀搀椀渀最 漀昀 琀栀攀洀攀 㰀戀爀㸀瀀愀爀欀 攀挀漀渀漀洀椀挀猀⸀ 倀愀爀欀猀 愀爀攀 猀攀愀猀漀渀愀氀 漀瀀攀爀愀琀椀漀渀猀⸀ 㰀戀爀㸀匀漀 愀 瀀愀爀欀 氀椀欀攀 䌀倀 栀愀猀 爀漀甀最栀氀礀 琀栀爀攀攀 洀漀渀琀栀猀 漀甀琀 㰀戀爀㸀漀昀 琀栀攀 礀攀愀爀 琀漀 攀愀爀渀 戀愀挀欀 琀栀攀 洀漀渀攀礀 琀栀攀礀 猀瀀攀渀琀 㰀戀爀㸀漀渀 䴀䘀 ⠀␀㈀㠀 洀椀氀⸀Ⰰ 渀漀琀 ␀㈀㔀 洀椀氀⸀⤀ 吀栀椀猀 猀椀洀瀀氀礀 㰀戀爀㸀挀愀渀✀琀 戀攀 搀漀渀攀 椀渀 漀渀攀 猀攀愀猀漀渀⸀ 吀栀攀 眀栀漀氀攀 㰀戀爀㸀瀀甀爀瀀漀猀攀 漀昀 戀甀椀氀搀椀渀最 愀 渀攀眀 爀椀搀攀 椀猀 琀漀 㰀戀爀㸀瀀甀氀氀 瀀攀漀瀀氀攀 椀渀Ⰰ 眀栀礀 猀栀漀甀氀搀 䌀倀 戀甀椀氀搀 礀攀琀 愀渀漀琀栀攀爀 㰀戀爀㸀爀椀搀攀 眀栀攀渀 䴀䘀 眀椀氀氀 瀀甀氀氀 琀栀攀洀 椀渀 昀漀爀 琀眀漀 漀爀 琀栀爀攀攀 㰀戀爀㸀礀攀愀爀猀Ⰰ 攀愀猀椀氀礀⸀ 䤀琀✀猀 眀栀愀琀✀猀 欀渀漀眀渀 愀猀 ∀爀攀猀椀搀甀愀氀 㰀戀爀㸀搀爀愀眀⸀∀ 匀愀洀攀 瀀爀椀渀挀瀀氀攀 愀瀀瀀氀椀攀猀 琀漀 爀甀洀漀爀猀 愀戀漀甀琀 㰀戀爀㸀瀀愀爀欀猀 最攀琀琀椀渀最 洀甀氀琀椀瀀氀攀 戀椀最ⴀ琀椀挀欀攀琀 爀椀搀攀猀 椀渀 琀栀攀 㰀戀爀㸀猀愀洀攀 猀攀愀猀漀渀⸀ 吀栀椀猀 洀愀欀攀猀 猀攀渀猀攀 昀漀爀 猀洀愀氀氀Ⰰ 甀渀搀攀爀猀椀稀攀搀 㰀戀爀㸀瀀愀爀欀猀 戀攀椀渀最 挀漀渀瘀攀爀琀攀搀 椀渀琀漀 匀椀砀 䘀氀愀最猀✀ 漀瀀攀爀愀琀椀漀渀猀Ⰰ 㰀戀爀㸀戀甀琀 洀愀欀攀猀 愀戀猀漀氀甀琀攀氀礀 渀漀 猀攀渀猀攀 昀漀爀 愀 瀀愀爀欀 氀椀欀攀 㰀戀爀㸀倀䬀䤀Ⰰ 眀栀椀挀栀 椀猀 爀甀洀漀爀攀搀 琀漀 戀攀 最攀琀琀椀渀最 琀眀漀 䄀ⴀ氀椀猀琀 㰀戀爀㸀挀漀愀猀琀攀爀猀 椀渀 ㈀ ㈀℀ 愀渀搀 搀漀渀✀琀 搀椀猀挀漀甀渀琀 琀栀攀 洀椀氀氀攀渀渀椀愀氀 㰀戀爀㸀愀猀瀀攀挀琀 漀昀 爀椀搀攀猀 氀椀欀攀 䜀漀氀椀愀琀栀Ⰰ 䴀䘀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 匀漀䈀Ⰰ 琀栀攀礀 㰀戀爀㸀眀攀爀攀 愀猀 洀甀挀栀 倀刀 猀琀甀渀琀猀 愀猀 戀甀猀椀渀攀猀猀 椀渀瘀攀猀琀洀攀渀琀猀⸀ 㰀戀爀㸀 㰀戀爀㸀 㰀戀爀㸀 㰀戀爀㸀 㰀戀爀㸀 㰀戀爀㸀 㰀戀爀㸀
Unrealistic Expectations
Posted By: bullwinkle
Date: 8/13/00 15:42
After reading about umpteen million posts in several
venues on what the general public expects their
regional parks to build, it's clear that most
enthusiasts have become unhinged by millennium
rides like SoB, MF, Goliath, and SD 2000. Let's
just take a sampling of the consensus. When PKD
announced Hypersonic, it was met with a chorus of
boos, a ride that was once lusted after fell out
of favor in MF's large shadow. It's just a prototype they screamed! It never occured to anyone that
TA2K must crawl before it can fly!
KW's Phantom's Revenge didn't fare much better,
probably because the more gullible believed some
of the ridiculous rumors floating around that
KW was about to build a record-setter that would
demolish MF and SD 2000. The fact that KW lacked
the financial resources to build such a coaster
wasn't even considered by those who wanted to believe
it. SoB, MF, and Goliath were built by three of
the richer parks in the U.S., backed by deep
pockets, with high attendance.
SDC's B&M Sit-down, Wildfire, has hardly been
mentioned because it doesn't break any records
or boast the tallest this, or longest that. The
fact that it might be a superior ride to any number
of record-holders is irrelevant. Bigger has become
better. Is MF a great coaster, or a great big hill?
Coaster nuts now expect parks to build MF's and
SD's every year! No seasonal American park could
recoup a SD 2000-type investment ($54 mil.!) in
less than five-years (and by then, the same
people who screamed for it will have grown bored
with it and demand something else.) Fujiyama
stood unchallenged fo 礀攀愀爀猀Ⰰ 猀漀 搀漀渀✀琀 戀攀 猀甀爀瀀爀椀猀攀搀 㰀戀爀㸀椀昀 匀䐀 爀攀洀愀椀渀猀 琀栀攀 爀攀挀漀爀搀ⴀ栀漀氀搀攀爀 昀漀爀 愀 氀漀渀最 琀椀洀攀⸀ 㰀戀爀㸀 㰀戀爀㸀匀漀洀攀 瀀攀漀瀀氀攀 猀琀椀氀氀 琀栀椀渀欀 䌀倀 椀猀 戀甀椀氀搀椀渀最 礀攀琀 㰀戀爀㸀愀渀漀琀栀攀爀 䔀ⴀ吀椀挀欀攀琀 爀椀搀攀 渀攀砀琀 礀攀愀爀℀ 倀攀漀瀀氀攀 戀攀氀椀攀瘀攀 㰀戀爀㸀琀栀椀猀 最愀爀戀愀最攀 愀渀搀 攀砀瀀攀挀琀 琀栀攀 甀渀攀砀瀀攀挀琀攀搀 戀攀挀愀甀猀攀 㰀戀爀㸀琀栀攀礀 栀愀瘀攀 愀氀洀漀猀琀 渀漀 甀渀搀攀爀猀琀愀渀搀椀渀最 漀昀 琀栀攀洀攀 㰀戀爀㸀瀀愀爀欀 攀挀漀渀漀洀椀挀猀⸀ 倀愀爀欀猀 愀爀攀 猀攀愀猀漀渀愀氀 漀瀀攀爀愀琀椀漀渀猀⸀ 㰀戀爀㸀匀漀 愀 瀀愀爀欀 氀椀欀攀 䌀倀 栀愀猀 爀漀甀最栀氀礀 琀栀爀攀攀 洀漀渀琀栀猀 漀甀琀 㰀戀爀㸀漀昀 琀栀攀 礀攀愀爀 琀漀 攀愀爀渀 戀愀挀欀 琀栀攀 洀漀渀攀礀 琀栀攀礀 猀瀀攀渀琀 㰀戀爀㸀漀渀 䴀䘀 ⠀␀㈀㠀 洀椀氀⸀Ⰰ 渀漀琀 ␀㈀㔀 洀椀氀⸀⤀ 吀栀椀猀 猀椀洀瀀氀礀 㰀戀爀㸀挀愀渀✀琀 戀攀 搀漀渀攀 椀渀 漀渀攀 猀攀愀猀漀渀⸀ 吀栀攀 眀栀漀氀攀 㰀戀爀㸀瀀甀爀瀀漀猀攀 漀昀 戀甀椀氀搀椀渀最 愀 渀攀眀 爀椀搀攀 椀猀 琀漀 㰀戀爀㸀瀀甀氀氀 瀀攀漀瀀氀攀 椀渀Ⰰ 眀栀礀 猀栀漀甀氀搀 䌀倀 戀甀椀氀搀 礀攀琀 愀渀漀琀栀攀爀 㰀戀爀㸀爀椀搀攀 眀栀攀渀 䴀䘀 眀椀氀氀 瀀甀氀氀 琀栀攀洀 椀渀 昀漀爀 琀眀漀 漀爀 琀栀爀攀攀 㰀戀爀㸀礀攀愀爀猀Ⰰ 攀愀猀椀氀礀⸀ 䤀琀✀猀 眀栀愀琀✀猀 欀渀漀眀渀 愀猀 ∀爀攀猀椀搀甀愀氀 㰀戀爀㸀搀爀愀眀⸀∀ 匀愀洀攀 瀀爀椀渀挀瀀氀攀 愀瀀瀀氀椀攀猀 琀漀 爀甀洀漀爀猀 愀戀漀甀琀 㰀戀爀㸀瀀愀爀欀猀 最攀琀琀椀渀最 洀甀氀琀椀瀀氀攀 戀椀最ⴀ琀椀挀欀攀琀 爀椀搀攀猀 椀渀 琀栀攀 㰀戀爀㸀猀愀洀攀 猀攀愀猀漀渀⸀ 吀栀椀猀 洀愀欀攀猀 猀攀渀猀攀 昀漀爀 猀洀愀氀氀Ⰰ 甀渀搀攀爀猀椀稀攀搀 㰀戀爀㸀瀀愀爀欀猀 戀攀椀渀最 挀漀渀瘀攀爀琀攀搀 椀渀琀漀 匀椀砀 䘀氀愀最猀✀ 漀瀀攀爀愀琀椀漀渀猀Ⰰ 㰀戀爀㸀戀甀琀 洀愀欀攀猀 愀戀猀漀氀甀琀攀氀礀 渀漀 猀攀渀猀攀 昀漀爀 愀 瀀愀爀欀 氀椀欀攀 㰀戀爀㸀倀䬀䤀Ⰰ 眀栀椀挀栀 椀猀 爀甀洀漀爀攀搀 琀漀 戀攀 最攀琀琀椀渀最 琀眀漀 䄀ⴀ氀椀猀琀 㰀戀爀㸀挀漀愀猀琀攀爀猀 椀渀 ㈀ ㈀℀ 愀渀搀 搀漀渀✀琀 搀椀猀挀漀甀渀琀 琀栀攀 洀椀氀氀攀渀渀椀愀氀 㰀戀爀㸀愀猀瀀攀挀琀 漀昀 爀椀搀攀猀 氀椀欀攀 䜀漀氀椀愀琀栀Ⰰ 䴀䘀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 匀漀䈀Ⰰ 琀栀攀礀 㰀戀爀㸀眀攀爀攀 愀猀 洀甀挀栀 倀刀 猀琀甀渀琀猀 愀猀 戀甀猀椀渀攀猀猀 椀渀瘀攀猀琀洀攀渀琀猀⸀ 㰀戀爀㸀 㰀戀爀㸀 㰀戀爀㸀 㰀戀爀㸀 㰀戀爀㸀 㰀戀爀㸀 㰀戀爀㸀
Agreed!!! The GP doesn't quite understand bigger is better. People who live near SDC will flock there for the new coaster, but the lack of a record breaker hurts the regional area. I think Kennywood's new coaster will be a success. The bottom lineis the GP is not educated in the coaster world, and therefore they will never understand why coasters are never gonna exceed 1000 feet or whatever they want. The ideas I hear people talk about are either totally crazy or already thought of. That shows you how fickle the GP really is. Well not fickle, just uneducated.
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DOWN WITH TRIM BRAKES!
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DOWN WITH TRIM BRAKES!
Good commentary Sim. (clap, clap, clap)
You make a very good point. It is ludicrous to think that any park will get a major new ride every year. Not even CP, SFMM, or PKI. The bigger is better thing is also getting out of hand. This year alone we had (correct me if wrong), four holders of the worlds longest drop. Seems to me that the big parks lately have been so concerned about records that they've forgotten about building good coasters.
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LONG LIVE ARROW DYNAMICS!!
You make a very good point. It is ludicrous to think that any park will get a major new ride every year. Not even CP, SFMM, or PKI. The bigger is better thing is also getting out of hand. This year alone we had (correct me if wrong), four holders of the worlds longest drop. Seems to me that the big parks lately have been so concerned about records that they've forgotten about building good coasters.
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LONG LIVE ARROW DYNAMICS!!
Excellent commentary. Of course, the fact that it reflects things I've been saying may bias me a bit ;)
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--Greg
http://www.pobox.com/~gregleg/
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--Greg
http://www.pobox.com/~gregleg/
Rev., Are you saying that you would rather NOT have the bigger steel coasters around? I for one welcome with open arms the race for the tallest fastest steel coaster. Almost everyone who has ridden these (Goliath, MF, and SD2K) agree that they are both huge and high quality. I know that your favorite coaster is nowhere near the tallest or fastest, but I think as long as their money allows it, let the competition continue. PKI blew it with SOB, IMO. Too many problems with a woodie of that magnitude, and the mixed ride reviews don't help the situation.
Bigger CAN BE better!
I do agree with the expactations part of the commentary, I realize that parks cannot afford big rides every season, but some parks do not have seasonal admission. KBF is open 364 days a year. (closed Christmas Day) D-Land is open every day INCLUDING Christmas. Florida parks have year round admission, too from what I have heard.
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Gotta ride 'em all!
Bigger CAN BE better!
I do agree with the expactations part of the commentary, I realize that parks cannot afford big rides every season, but some parks do not have seasonal admission. KBF is open 364 days a year. (closed Christmas Day) D-Land is open every day INCLUDING Christmas. Florida parks have year round admission, too from what I have heard.
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Gotta ride 'em all!
Let me show you all a different way of looking at this issue. The whole "Bigger, Taller, Faster" aspect of the 'coaster wars' is not to appease the general public, but rather to spark enthusiasm among the coaster-loving nuts (self included). By getting the high profile coaster lovers (e.g. Paul Ruben and the discovery channel programs) to talk about the ride, the parks essentially gain free publicity. If the new ride was just average, there would not be much talk even if the coaster was a good ride.
True, bigger does not necessarily mean better, but bigger DOES mean different. People go (back) to parks for the new and different experiences. The coaster loving nuts (who are the only ones even talking about all the rumors) need to recognize that the addition of a cool flat ride can be incentive to the GP as much as a new coaster. For example, at SFGAm, there was as much buzz around the park with the introduction of Power Dive (looping starship) as there was for Shockwave (record smashing Arrow mega-looper). To me, the thought of a park getting coasters in back-to-back years is ludicrous and getting multiple coasters in a single season (ala SFO) is downright asinine. It is us, the coaster savvy public who must learn to appreciate the non-headline grabbing coasters.
(time for a random personal opinion)
Regarding TA2K, there was nothing (technology related) preventing PKD and S&S from making a more in depth coaster. All they needed to do was add some hills and curves. The model that they are getting proves that hills and turns are fesible (sp?). I'm not asking for 27 inversions, but 5 good hills would have been enough...
lata,
Jeremy
*** This post was edited by 2Hostyl on 8/14/2000. *** *** This post was edited by 2Hostyl on 8/14/2000. ***
True, bigger does not necessarily mean better, but bigger DOES mean different. People go (back) to parks for the new and different experiences. The coaster loving nuts (who are the only ones even talking about all the rumors) need to recognize that the addition of a cool flat ride can be incentive to the GP as much as a new coaster. For example, at SFGAm, there was as much buzz around the park with the introduction of Power Dive (looping starship) as there was for Shockwave (record smashing Arrow mega-looper). To me, the thought of a park getting coasters in back-to-back years is ludicrous and getting multiple coasters in a single season (ala SFO) is downright asinine. It is us, the coaster savvy public who must learn to appreciate the non-headline grabbing coasters.
(time for a random personal opinion)
Regarding TA2K, there was nothing (technology related) preventing PKD and S&S from making a more in depth coaster. All they needed to do was add some hills and curves. The model that they are getting proves that hills and turns are fesible (sp?). I'm not asking for 27 inversions, but 5 good hills would have been enough...
lata,
Jeremy
*** This post was edited by 2Hostyl on 8/14/2000. *** *** This post was edited by 2Hostyl on 8/14/2000. ***
I have no problems at all with making bigger coasters. The only problem though is the way they design them. Thats where the problem lies. SD looks to have easily the worst layout of the new monsters. Goliath has the best layout. MF is in between to me because I prefer high speed turns. Someone needs to if gonna build a big record breaker make it interesting. We dont need another 300ft out and back bunny hill filled boring coaster. What we could use is a record breaking drop which then does something interesting. So again I say sure, break a record, but do it with some style.
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LONG LIVE ARROW DYNAMICS!!
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LONG LIVE ARROW DYNAMICS!!
Rev: Okay, I can see your point. Though I must admit that I am really pleased with the SD Layout. It all depends on what the coaster is for. Also, I dont think that you could have a *very* tight turning massive coaster as people would begin to complain (as they are already doing with the impressive G-man Centrifuge). Hmm, I wonder how much you could do with a coaster that fast & no loops....
P.S. (keep this a secret...but I LOVE ARROW TOO!)
P.S. (keep this a secret...but I LOVE ARROW TOO!)
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