Two Phantom's Revenge Questions

Thursday, August 9, 2001 4:34 AM
1. I know they have 2 trains for Phantoms Revenge, but have they both been on the track at the same time so far this year? Or has it been strictly a one train operation?

2. What kind of changes did Morgan have to make to its standard track design so that it would work with the Arrow track? Usually the difference between these two tracks is quite noticeable, but in this case they are more similar.


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"Looks like you've been missing quite a bit of work lately"
"Well, I wouldn't say I've been MISSING it, Bob."
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Thursday, August 9, 2001 5:11 AM
1. No, they have only operated one train at a time. But apparently both trains have operated this season.

2. Morgan's track is virtually identical to Arrow's track; the most notable difference is the use of flat-plate track ties instead of forged square tube track ties, and the fabrication method for the track spine. Again, the only thing that is geometrically important about the track is that the gauge is correct, the rail size is correct, and there is sufficient clearance in all the right places. Morgan could have used a radically different style of track and still made it work with the Arrow wheelsets and still made it connect to the Arrow track.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.
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Thursday, August 9, 2001 5:12 AM
I don't know about the train question, but the track appears to be the same construction as the rest of their coasters aside from Steel Dragon. It's the same tubular sections with solid "curly-U" shaped ties like those found on Morgan hypers. I have no idea about the track gauge and thickness of the steel used, but that aside it doesn't look any different.

I always liked the design better than Arrow's, because the Arrow design has a whole lot of welds on every tie, and each tie is welded to the continuous spine. The Morgan ties are big solid pieces welded in between the large tube sections.

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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
"From the global village... in the age of communication!"
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Thursday, August 9, 2001 5:16 AM
2 trains have run EMPTY, but to my knowledge they haven't run 2 trains with people. They DO alternate which train they use for one-train operation (not sure if they do so on a daily basis, but I've definitely ridden in both trains on different days)


As for what Morgan had to change, I'm not sure. This is my first Morgan coaster, so I'm not sure how different this track is from their usual. You CAN see the difference between Arrow and Morgan ( http://www.gregleg.com/coastershrine/Kennywood/images/prevenge/4-2-track-difference.jpg ), but that doesn't mean as much as, say, comparing it to Steel Force would.



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--Greg

http://www.pobox.com/~gregleg/
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Thursday, August 9, 2001 5:54 AM
So the diameter of the rails that Arrow and Morgan coasters run on is exactly the same.

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"Looks like you've been missing quite a bit of work lately"
"Well, I wouldn't say I've been MISSING it, Bob."
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Thursday, August 9, 2001 6:28 AM
In the case of Phantom's Revenge, yes, the rail diameter is the same. However, there might be a difference between the rail diameters of Magnum and Steel Force.

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Scott W. Short
scott@midwestcoastercentral.com
http://www.midwestcoastercentral.com
*** This post was edited by ShiveringTim on 8/9/2001. ***
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Thursday, August 9, 2001 7:33 AM
Yes, both trains have run with people.

I have a question, have the trims been installed yet? I know the brackets are there.
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Thursday, August 9, 2001 7:50 AM
no they havent been running two trains, at KennyKon one of the managers of the park told us that the brackets are for earth magnets not trim air brakes. just to slow it down enough so they dont stop 19 feet into the station with the original brakes. so they are never gonna run a two train operation until those magnets are in which he said would be sometime in august.

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NEW - 35 Michigan's Adventure Photos at G-Screams
http://gscreams.cjb.net *** This post was edited by beastnum1 on 8/9/2001. ***
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Thursday, August 9, 2001 8:33 AM
I had heard they were having trouble stopping the train on the final break run. I've seen it in action, and it doesn't make a full stop until it is in the station about 10 of 15 feet. That would be a problem with 2 train operation.

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Jes
Webmaster, Jes's Roller Coasters
www.jesms.cjb.net "Thank You Jeff Putz"
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Thursday, August 9, 2001 8:45 AM
I'm curious as to whether the Morgan section of the ride (that is, all after the first two drops) gives a drastically smoother ride than the remaining Arrow track work. I would imagine that it does but I guess better trains would alleviate some of the famous Arrow "play in the wheel assembly." Then again, I'm not exactly sure whether the trains are brand-new or reworked.

A little off-topic I realize but this seemed like a good place to ask.
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Thursday, August 9, 2001 9:22 AM
Not that off topic. There is a difference between the two sections, though I couldn't detect a difference in the way the trains ride over the track, you can definetly tell a difference in the transitions. The exit out of the first curving drop and even the slight turn at the top of the second hill are no where near as smooth as the rest of the transistions.

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"Looks like you've been missing quite a bit of work lately"
"Well, I wouldn't say I've been MISSING it, Bob."
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Thursday, August 9, 2001 10:04 AM
Both trains have run with people on them, just not at the same time. Only one train on the circuit is allowed until the trims are fully installed. Then two trains can go at once, but don't look for that until next season.

I found almsot zero transistion between the Arrow and Morgan track going down the second drop.

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Beeman65
Assistant Webmaster
Kennywood Park Unlimited
www.kpunlimited.com
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Thursday, August 9, 2001 12:37 PM
Just to add some details... maybe some new info...

RideMan said:
"Morgan's track is virtually identical to Arrow's track; the most notable difference is the use of flat-plate track ties instead of forged square tube track ties..."

I think what he was referring to was the difference between this and normal Morgan track. The only difference I know of is the gauge of the tubular rails. This gauge difference is the reason for the use of modified Arrow trains.

Jeff said:
"I always liked the design better than Arrow's, because the Arrow design has a whole lot of welds on every tie..."

EXACTLY!!!! Everywhere there's a weld, there's a potential crack... Morgan track seems SO MUCH better than Arrow's. There are 2 welds per arm as opposed to over 20. If you don't think this is a big difference, ask those involved with the Drachen Fire debacle.

john peck asked:
"have the trims been installed yet? I know the brackets are there.

No. The trims to be used were found to be of an improper size, and will be used for the Jack Rabit modifications this year. It is highly improbable that they will be installed this year. (If this depresses you, john, may I suggest "rollercoaster" by Echo & The Bunnymen!)

Zero-G said:
"I've seen it in action, and it doesn't make a full stop until it is in the station about 10 or 15 feet."

That's on purpose. When the ride is running only one train, the ready brakes on the transfer table check the train, but don't stop it. It rarely comes in past the transfer table on full pressure, but even once is too much... just ask the SFNE staff.

Only 24 days left to ride PR... see you at the park!

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"Let's go out and have some fun!" (New Order)
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Thursday, August 9, 2001 1:30 PM
I knew that major slide had to be planned. Buzz around KennyKon was that full trains go 19 feet into the station. People were making it out to sound like that's the soonest as it can be stopped, but apparently, it's just provides a slower, easier pull into the station. (And my not-mechanically-savvy mind would imagine, puts less stress on the brakes on the brake run.)

It may be none of my business, but are the "modifications" to the Jack Rabbit just the computerized braking system? I mean, you're not trimming that double-dip or anything, are you? ;)

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Matt Lynch
Co-Webmaster, Kennywood Boulevard
http://kennywood.coasterbuzz.com
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Thursday, August 9, 2001 1:54 PM

kpjb said:

Zero-G said:
I've seen it in action, and it doesn't make a full stop until it is in the station about 10 or 15 feet.

That's on purpose. When the ride is running only one train, the ready brakes on the transfer table check the train, but don't stop it. It rarely comes in past the transfer table on full pressure, but even once is too much... just ask the SFNE staff.


I'd heard before that the brakes COULD, in fact, stop the train if needed, but the stop would be rather abrupt and not necessarily completely predictable. This confirms that tidbit :)

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--Greg

http://www.pobox.com/~gregleg/ *** This post was edited by GregLeg on 8/9/2001. ***
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Thursday, August 9, 2001 3:12 PM
Lynch, the double dip is being removed and replaced with SP's old loops. Seriously.

Anyhow, no, the coaster is not being modified in any way that will be particularly noticeable.

The brakes are being changed from friction brakes to permanent magnet brakes. As it is now, in a heavy rain, the train slides WAY too far. It's going to just slow you down gradually where the brake run presently is.

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"Let's go out and have some fun!" (New Order)
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Thursday, August 9, 2001 3:17 PM
Hmm... Sounds like you might have read about "Jack Rabbit's Revenge" on Kennywood Boulevard...! ;)

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Matt Lynch
Co-Webmaster, Kennywood Boulevard
http://kennywood.coasterbuzz.com
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Friday, August 10, 2001 8:47 AM
Would magenetic brakes on the Jack Rabbit disqualify it as an ACE classic coaster?
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Friday, August 10, 2001 8:59 AM
This is a bit off the original topic, but it would apparently still qualify as a classic coaster - here's the rules:
The coaster must use traditional lap bars that allow riders to experience so-called airtime, or negative G's (that sensation of floating above the seat!!). Individual, ratcheting lap bars do not meet this requirement.
The coaster cannot use bucket seats or seat dividers. Instead, ACE Coaster Classics allow riders to slide from side-to-side.
ACE Coaster Classics allow riders to view the upcoming drops and thrills. Coasters with headrests on every seat, or the majority of seats, restrict this view and are not eligible for ACE Coaster Classic status.
On ACE Coaster Classics, riders are free to choose where they sit. Some parks' operating procedures assign seating; these coasters are not eligible for ACE Coaster Classic status.
Hope that helps!
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rollergator - intent on improving the "guest experience" - coming soon to a park near you
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Friday, August 10, 2001 10:16 AM
Actually, with how the Jackrabbit has been running this year, it probably COULD technically lose "classic" status. They're not allowing you to pick your own seat -- they just tell you to move on down into the station. Kind of a bummer actually.

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--Greg

http://www.pobox.com/~gregleg/
*** This post was edited by GregLeg on 8/10/2001. ***
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