Train coming off it's track?

Wednesday, March 13, 2002 8:24 AM

This idea was spawned on the other thread about GP and their supposed falacies. However B&M TYCOON made the statement saying that people talk about how the train comes off the track and how silly that is.

I WAS and still AM convinced that on some coasters (most notably the rear facing trains of racing woodies), the last car does seem to hop a little. I'm not saying that it's flapping in the breeze like a kite, but it does seem to lose contact here and there cresting bunny hops especially.

So, someone much more learned than I, please inform me. I consider myself a "tweener" enthusiast who knows a bit about coasters, but I want clarification of this.

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Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like bananas.

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Wednesday, March 13, 2002 8:42 AM
Brian, even though the train doesn't come off the track, it does bump a bit, depending on the ride. I recall my first time on Lochness Monster and I swore the rear car actually leapt off the track, albeit for a split second. Scared the shiznit out of me! Of course, the upstops saved us all, but still.....:)
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www.tripowered.com
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Wednesday, March 13, 2002 8:44 AM
Many woodies do this because the running wheels lose contact with the running rails.This happens in old Arrow Loopers. This is more evident on woodies because there's more space between the upstops and the running wheels. This isn't a problem on new coasters because they have spring loaded wheels that keep contact with the running rails at all times.

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Is it a dream or a memory? It's both, it's X

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Wednesday, March 13, 2002 8:54 AM

Hey Nasai, the first turnaround right? Scared the pants off'n me!

BTW...cool tracks...

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"I'll bet that thing hits 5 Gs going through that loop.....faaar ooouut!"

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Wednesday, March 13, 2002 9:15 AM
I never thought of it as a problem! :)

The Kennywood Jack Rabbit is a great example of this: Stand in the lower picnic shelter opposite the double-dip and notice that when the train comes flying off the upper dip, it makes absolutely no sound at all because none of the wheels is actually touching the track. There is enough space between the road wheel and the upstop to allow the train to come up an inch or two.

Another place to watch, also at Kennywood, is the dip on Phantom's Revenge when the train goes over the Turtle. From the queue you can clearly see how the nose of the lead car rises gently, then comes down with a crash as the upstop wheels catch.

A third place: Take a walk along the beach at Cedar Point and watch the front of the Magnum XL-200train as it comes out of the second-to-last tunnel. Its road wheels are obviously clear of the track.

A particularly good place to feel this effect is in the front seat of the Racer at Kings Island. Put your foot on the floor, directly above the road wheel and you can tell when it leaves the track..and more obviously when it lands on the rail again.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

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Wednesday, March 13, 2002 9:34 AM
That's kinda what I was getting at. IT does leave the track as in not making contact for a few milli-seconds, but not as in derailed. Good heavens. :oÞ

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Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like bananas.

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Wednesday, March 13, 2002 9:50 AM
Ride Man: You have good perception -- This is no more evident than on the Kennywood Jack Rabbit because of the double dip. By the time you go over the second dip you have already picked up quite a bit of speed - you can tell by the noise the train makes when you're riding - it goes, bam-bam-bam-bam-bam-bam-bam-bam-bam-bam-.....silence, silence, silence......bam-bam-bam-bam-bam...... cool!

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Wednesday, March 13, 2002 12:40 PM
And this is why we have upstop wheels =) Gotta love airtime though.
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Wednesday, March 13, 2002 12:45 PM
Dave, those are great examples! But can you do the Racer trick when you are stapled? :) I love feeling coaster trains jump and slam back down. It really adds to the "out of control" feeling, while reminding you of John Miller's valuable contribution!

Brad Sherman
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Don't.....look.....back! The Headless Horseman awaits you in 2002!
Model coasters and rides

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Wednesday, March 13, 2002 2:08 PM
janfrederick, thanks for the kudos....sign the guestbook! Yeah, I was talking about the turnaround. That drop coming out of the turnaround is the most intense ejector air I can recall. I actually use my memory of it to compare all other rides.
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You know this rocks!
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Wednesday, March 13, 2002 2:11 PM
What does Stapled mean?

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Beer, my soon to be wife, coasters, and the FREEDOM OF SPEECH. Is this a great country or what!!

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Wednesday, March 13, 2002 2:45 PM
Stapled: A moment when you get pinned to the back of the seat. Happens alot on X-Flight when the crew tightens the restraints realy hard.

And I think it would jump the tracks because of the trailered trains. The wheel may not be all the way in the front for "some" odd reason.

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At least I dont call a vertical loop a "loopdie-loop"!

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Wednesday, March 13, 2002 2:51 PM
There is a bit of a problem with the trains on the Racer. It has come to my attention that on a new PTC train with ratcheting lap bars, there are six lap bar detent positions, and Position #6 puts the top of the bar just slightly above the modern seat divider, slightly more than 6" up from the seat cushion.

On the PKI Racer, I think the same six positions are there, but the highest one is about where Position #4 should be, and in Position #6 the bar is compressing the seat cushion.

Now if you think about how a wire staple functions, and compare that to the design of a ratcheting lap bar...well, you can draw your own conclusions. And I tell you from unpleasant experience...if that bar comes down too far, you're gonna be stuck there for a while... :(

(Brad, thanks for the reminder...I gotta find my safety strap before PKI's season opener!)

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

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Wednesday, March 13, 2002 2:53 PM
I think a great example of hearing nothing is on the return run on Boulder Dash.

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Daniel Haverlock
magnum count :2166
www.spiritofthepoint.com

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Wednesday, March 13, 2002 3:17 PM
Another great example of when you can feel the train "coming off the tracks" is on American Eagle at SFGAm on the red side. If you sit in the back car on the first hill you definetly feel some fabulous airtime, especially on those most excellent night rides.

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"If life gives you lemons, squeeze the juice into its eyes until it cries like a little sissy girl" -Yero

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Wednesday, March 13, 2002 3:51 PM
The best example *I* can think of is on S:ROS @ SFA when it goes over the notorious "third hill". It basically sound like this:

*rumblerumblerumble*...(silence)..SCREEEEEEEAMS*rumblerumblerumble*
jeremy
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"Nobody writes about the planes that land." Steve Salerno Washington Times 7-10-01

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Wednesday, March 13, 2002 5:15 PM
Raging Wolf Bobs in the back seat. Coming down the first hill, I swear the train literally bumped off the tracks and when the upstops hit the track I was thrown outward and it scared the crap out of me. That was the only airtime I've ever gotten on that coaster... Needless to say it added some much needed excitement however I doubt it was designed with the intention of 'bouncing down the track' ;)

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"I live my life a quarter mile at a time. For those ten seconds or less, I'm free." Dominic from The Fast and the Furious

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Wednesday, March 13, 2002 5:17 PM
Try the front of Skyliner. You can really feel the road wheels leave the track then drop back down.
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Wednesday, March 13, 2002 5:23 PM

Im not sure if someone said it yet becuase I dont have time to read all of the post but dont the coaster cars lift off the track when hitting negative forces ,but thats what the upstops wheels are for and so instead of riding on the regular wheels ur riding on the upstops then the trains losses the air and lands and ur riding with the regular wheels and if it hits a turn your ride on the side wheels (guide wheels) How hard is that to understand? It also happens on older steel coasters ,but I dout on newer ones and thats why you get such a rough ride.

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Wednesday, March 13, 2002 6:10 PM

No, it's the Raging Wolf "Kabobs."

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