Towns with amusement parks and their financial woes.

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Den said:
If you can afford a house, you can afford to pay the schools (and if you can't, maybe you bought too much house).

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This really is not the issue, isn't it? You can pay tax when you buy the house, but cannot later because taxes were raised multiple times. There are many people like this in places. I know a few senior citizens who are retired actually HAVE TO get a job so that they can pay taxes. Also, Ohio is one of the top 10 highest taxed state in the country. As I said, I support schools and donate money for other charities and buy stuffs from schools for fund raisers. Guess what, the fund raisers and charities get reduced when I have to pay more property tax or any other tax. I would rather volunteer to teach kids at schools, but everyone knows that is not allowed since that would not benefit the school system.

Everyone has budgets for things including schools and governments. Balancing them is important. I will balance by cutting non-critical stuff. If there is a need for additional buildings and such, work with people and not make threats. People are tired of taxes. Making threats will not work.

Den: It must be regionally different then, because we've always used "mil" here in Northeast Ohio in our literature from the district, and our media does the same (WKYC/Cleveland: Medina levy).

Ohio is a unique situation because our schools don't have any choice, and the state isn't doing anything about it, despite being ordered to do so by our supreme court. Can we hold the entire legislature in contempt of court?

Woody: Define "threat." If the schools say that without a levy, they'll have to cut sports or go into split sessions, and it's true, that's not a threat, it's a statement of fact. Schools (in Ohio) are required to plan what they'll do if their levies fail, so by the time the issue makes it onto the ballot, they know exactly what's going to be cut.

Anyway, like Jeff said, Ohio schools *have no other choice* but to tax. It is selfish to blame the schools for the apathy of the state of Ohio. DeRolph V ended almost a year ago and nothing's been done since then.

EDIT: Interesting, Jeff, about that regional quirk. Here's a story from one of my papers, which I edited:

http://www.snponline.com/NEWS3-3/3-3_DElevy%203-3.htm (copy and paste)

*** Edited 3/4/2004 7:36:24 PM UTC by Den***

ok This is how a "mil" works. If a city passes a 10 mil tax then the homeowner would pay $100 a year for every $100,000 the home is worth. A 30 mil tax would cause $300 a year for every $100,000 in value.

No blame here for the schools needing money although school systems tend to blame voters. I just think the messages are badly delivered when they need money.

There are other options instead of just doing status quo. I sent over an idea to school board about 4 years ago about different ways to teach kids. They said they cannot change how the things are done because of LABOR UNION issues. You can take this however you want to.

I have not said anything about blaming schools. My points are:

1. People are fed up with new taxes, thus...
2. Levies are not likely to pass time after time because school systems need them.
3. There are other ways to solve problems without spend, spend, spend.
4. Work together with communities to solve problems. During lean times, governments are not the only place where the money is tight.

That is all. I cannot help if you think I am against school or blaming school. That is your opinion. I am just bringing out some alternatives to what is going on now which obviously is not very effective.

Spend spend spend? Uh, I don't think buildings are built for free, and certainly the people working at them don't work for free. Hell, even with unions, teachers are still underpaid. You aren't offering any alternatives.

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Charles Nungester said:
Indiana Schools are fully state funded.

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Yes, our schools are state-funded--but local and county taxes also go to support them. There's some federal money for special programs, too, now and then.

Those tax bills may be painful, but it's nice to have good schools for our children to attend.

Paula

I agree with what you say. You are disagreeing with me for agreeing with you. Teachers are grossly underpaid. There are many people would pass SPORTS complex tax such as SIN TAX in Cuyahoga County before they pass levies for local schools. This is idiotic. I would rather vote for schools instead of stealing Cavs from Richfield.

If you think that I am not offering any alternatives, so be it. Here are the alternatives that I listed on my previous posts:

1. Work together with communities instead of just saying 'there will be cuts if this levy does not pass.'

I requested additional information from school board 4 times. I received exactly zero responses. I supported and pushed for MRDD. Not even a school board or MRDD workers knew about this. If I voter is more informed about a levy than a people who work for the system, what kind of a message are they sending?

2. Work with Labor Union (Not on cutting pay or benefits) and local governments. I guess this is what you thought I said. I did not.

It seems that many cities and communities are giving corporations more tax breaks. Why not try to get some dedicated volunteers to teach math and science, if qualified, from these corporations. For example, 2 hours a week from an engineer or scientist from P&G or Ashland Chemical per community can go a long way. They even can bring some fresh ideas to school systems.

3. Be more accountable and open about finances.

As I stated earlier, I requested some of this without getting any response, let alone answers. If there are no responses, people will mistrust system thinking they do not WANT to answer.

Schools need more money. Governments need more money. People need more money. There is not a simple solution for this.

During this latest down turn in economy which began early 2000, many people lost jobs and money. We know there are problems with schools and governments. I can only suggest some ideas to fix the problems. Will these ideas fix the problem? Who knows? Do governements and school systems have to follow these? NO. I am just suggesting my ideas. That is all I am doing.

Here is an article today on what is going on in Lake County Illinois with taxes and opposition.

http://www.dailyherald.com/lake/main_story.asp?intID=38050104

Woody: You're still not offering any alternatives.

1) What do you want them to do? If they don't have the money, they cut programs. What "work" is there to do with the community? Even in well-to-do companies with a good light industrial base are tapped out. They're already giving what they can, as are booster groups.

2) Labor unions don't have anything to do with it either. Volunteers can't teach. There's cost associated with every teacher's background check, drug testing, etc., and volunteers are not certified (they need to be in Ohio). Certification and degree is tied to the compensation of every public school teacher in Ohio, and you may not teach without a certificate. What teacher wants volunteers doing their work?

3) What more accountability do you need? They are open. You can walk into any school district office and see their finances. They aren't keeping anything from you, and you can bet every blood sucking reporter in every small town paper has been over it.

You're right, it's a complex problem, but in Ohio, there are solutions, and they start at the state level. Unfortunately our governor, and obviously most of the general assembly, aren't doing anything about it.

I have seen this number of times when I bring this up. It is incredible that you are "arguing" this with me. I gave some "alternatives" and people shoot them down. I want to be able to improve the education system just like you. No matter what you or anyone else says, raising taxes at every level will not solve this at all. You probably think I am an Against Tax Group and vote NO on every levy. If you think or thought that, then you are WRONG. I supported many of the levies.

Why is that people cannot see this? The current push to put levy on the ballot every time there are money to be raised is NOT working and getting harder to pass them. How is arguing over some other options that could be explored? You seem to think that there is absolutely nothing can be done. I listed some options to consider. Do you have any? Instead of how things cannot be done, how about try to think of ways to REFINE some of these things?

Why is it that people always try to blame the current governor when the problem started long before this? I am not a poltical puppet to either party, so I am not going to BLAME anyone. Instead, I try to come up with possible alternatives to things that are obviously not working.

People try to make people think that this is the worst state when it comes to education system when it is actually decent. Go ahead and reject everything I said about this. You missed the entire point about #2.

I don't care one way or another if you support schools, I'm just saying that you haven't offered any solutions for the reasons I pointed out. What other "options" are there to consider?

I've been in the trenches, I know what the challenges are. From the administration and school board's perspective, it's very simple: They need money to continue offering a high level of service. If kids are packed like sardines in the hall during a class change and classes are doubling up in the same rooms, I think the solution is pretty simple: They need more room. In the interim you setup a trailer park in the parking lot. The neighbors really love that.

It doesn't matter how much you educate the public or plead your case. If people don't want to pay the additional taxes they won't vote for it. We ran the most comprehensive campaign we could in Medina in '98, and it still took a couple of tries to pass the levy. We had consultants, armies of volunteers campaigning, focus groups, surveys... the works.

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Jeff said:

It doesn't matter how much you educate the public or plead your case. If people don't want to pay the additional taxes they won't vote for it.

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I agree with this and have been trying to say from the beginning. Maybe I was not clear. If you misunderstood, I apologize.

I offered suggestions, not solutions! Well, you can believe what you believe about what I am saying about these suggestions. Shoot them down if you will. That is your choice. I am not sure what you are arguing. This is important issue. However, this argument really is pointless considering I want to improve school systems in Ohio. I am not sure about you but this is what I am trying do. I will stop this pointless and useless argument.

For some perspective on what people are "willing" to pay, every school levy on the ballot in Franklin County (Columbus) this week passed. We're talking rich neighborhoods (New Albany), urban middle class (Worthington, Westerville, Hilliard), and rural (Canal Winchester). In addition, a countywide children's services levy passed as well. So, even though it's not the best method, it *does* work, and people see how important it is.

http://www.fox19.com/Global/story.asp?S=1688265

An interesting related story.

The issue is "catching the attention" of the governor?? wtf? He and his staff should be freaking engrossed in solving this problem!

Apparently people in Franklin County just know how important it is to pass these things... :)

Our governor seriously needs to be replaced. I voted for him, but he's been nothing but a disappointment.

I hope Columbus Mayor Mike Coleman runs for governor. I'd vote for him, and I almost never vote Democrat.

I find it interesting that NE, Central, and SW Ohio people are discussing this issue and have generally same feelings about it. This may be the only thing these three cities agree on. LOL

I think we can also all agree that Columbus pwn3s ur face. ;)