Top Thrill 2 train, up close

Sharpel007:

I was surprised Seas announced that Premiere was building all the new track for Loch Ness and not S&S.

Intermountain Lift build the track for Premier and S&S, therefore I suspect it will come out of the same fabricator regardless.

Holy sh**!!!

Well, guess its time to go to Riyadh. I'll stop at Knoebels while I'm there.

But seriously, have they solved the heat buildup issues in the wheels? This was a problem at 300 feet, let alone double that. But if anyone is crazy enough to build something like this it's certainly Intamin.

Also, the bearing to handle the amount of rotational speed that will be present would need to be rather precise as well. Lots of challenges, curious if it pans out.

Also, the bearing to handle the amount of rotational speed that will be present would need to be rather precise as well. Lots of challenges, curious if it pans out.

Also, I can't imagine what all the sand will do to this thing, the bearings, the wheels, over time.

Coasters have existed on beaches for many, many years. Sand and salty water/air I'm sure isn't kind to coaster parts either, but maintenance teams exist for a reason.

Being on a Boardwalk in a temperate climate is one thing, being a 150+ mph, 600ft coaster going through the middle of the Arabian desert is another.

Besides the temp swings from 115 to freezing at night, sandstorms are semi-common.

Just head over to YouTube type in Riyadh sandstorm, and watch the sun get blocked out, and the car crashes that ensue.

Maybe they will only run it at night like they do the Middle East F1 races. :)

I prefer to youtube Darude Sandstorm.

Riding the world's tallest and fastest coaster in a sandstorm > RRR

Spoke with Zamperla about the Top Thrill 2 train and the information was fascinating. Beyond the mentioned milled chassis, what appears to be fiberglass is carbon fiber, similar to how Formula 1 cars are made. Compared to last year's Lightning train, the seat felt better and was more comfortable.

For Falcon's Flight, LUC Group (wheel manufacturer from Europe) had a wheel on display and I was allowed to handle it. Without the wheel bearing assembly, it was surprisingly lighter than I expected and it is made of aluminum for the caster part. An A/C system in the station will cool down the wheels between cycles.

I'm surprised that Intamin is using a smaller wheel than Zamperla is, by about four inches if what I am hearing is correct. Upsizing the road wheels is all about reducing the rotation rates, which in turn reduces the amount of heat that builds up in the wheel tread and the rotation rate of the center bearing (and the heat that builds up there). The use of spoked wheels (Intamin) versus solid wheels with lightening holes (Zamperla) probably relates to the methods for conducting heat from the wheel tread into the wheel disc and radiating it to the air.

Now for some interesting numbers--

Magnum XL-200: 12" diameter wheel, 72 MPH, top speed 2,017 RPM.
Top Thrill 2: 22" diameter wheel, 120 MPH, top speed 1,833 RPM.
Falcon's Flight: 16" diameter wheel, 156 MPH, top speed 3,277 RPM.

(C[feet]=π*d[inches]/12; W[rpm] = (V[mph]*5280(ft/mile])/60[min/hr])/C[feet]

So unless something got lost in translation, Falcon's Flight is going to face higher rotation rates than Top Thrill or even Magnum, which was the first Arrow coaster to use 12" road wheels specifically to reduce the rotation rates (would have been 3,014 RPM with 8" wheels).

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

And what's kind of crazy is that TT2 operates in a cooler climate than Falcon's Flight. I know they will have something in the station to cool the wheels, but that coaster is incredibly long and fast. How often are they going to go through wheels?

RideMan, thank you for comparing the differences between the wheel diameters. For curiosity, do you know what wheel diameter Millennium Force uses and Top Thrill Dragster used to use?

I have to agree with Jephry, I just don't see how this ride is not going to just devour wheels. It is certainly technically feasible, but I have to imagine it will require a large budget for wheel replacement, and have periodic downtime as they replace wheels on the train mid day. A bit like Millennium Force had for its first few seasons of operation.

Sorry, I don't know what sizes of wheels Intamin used on those other rides.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Jephry:

And what's kind of crazy is that TT2 operates in a cooler climate than Falcon's Flight

And you get better heat transfer with a larger difference between hot and cold... So those wheels building heat will have quite a time in Qiddiya, where the average summertime temp is 110F or so, compared to say, Sandusky where the summertime average is 82F in July.

I assume they will be using wheel coolers of some sort? If not just fans in an A/C space or misters and all that fun.

I always thought it would be relatively 'easy' (although, not the cheapest...) to create a special zone of cryo rail for cooling wheels along the station and/or blocks before the station by pumping cooled fluid through the rails (instead of welding end caps on the rails segments as they typically do, just do an open-gasketed joint so the fluid can run through the rail joint into the segments to be cooled and back to the chiller unit). Can also make the rail thinner in those sections using a lower schedule pipe to allow for better heat transfer through the metal into the fluid. Plus, can also as station and brake run A/C as well!

I designed a LN2 coldplate for a test that requires us to soak a substrate a few inches away from the cold plate through 4" of machined out aluminum... While LN2 is hella-cold, our thermal analysts ran the simulations and reported back it would only take us about 10 minutes to soak from ambient down to -200F for the test. While I don't expect LN2 at -320F or so to be required in this case to cool some wheels, using chillers to pump some sub-zero coolant down the rail could help potentially, I'd think.

And yes, I know the rails would condense and all that fun, which is why you would limit to A/C areas to prevent how badly it occurs. Also, with the right materials/collection basin/etc... It's not really much of an issue, I'd imagine.

Just thinking out loud, though.

That's a neat idea. Plus, condensation in the desert is less of an issue.

I don't think a chilled rail would be very efficient. The wheel will roll over it a few times in the station, but then be sitting on it in one spot. Since you're probably wanting to cool the laminate around the wheel (as opposed to the metal wheel itself), which I assume is a poor heat conductor, I don't imagine it would be effective. But I'm sure enterprising people could model that in comprooders to find out one way or another.

I assume they will be using wheel coolers of some sort? If not just fans in an A/C space or misters and all that fun.

I'm trying to remember which Intamin uses basic fans in the station under the concrete pointing at the hubs I rode last year, is it Storm Runner?

Considering this is Intamin, I will definitely not be riding it within the first 5 years, which seems to be when their post-build engineering catches up.