Theoretical Stats Question
Below are fictional coaster comparisons. Which has the "better" stats in your opinion in each comparison?
Coaster A - E: 9.04, I: 8.51, N: 5.71
Coaster B - E: 7.30, I: 5.60, N: 4.66
Better stats? A or B?
Coaster C - E: 6:40, I: 4.12, N: 3.99
Coaster D - E: 8.88, I: 8.82, N: 5.91
Better stats? C or D?
Coaster E - E: 7.78, I: 8.12, N: 7.04
Coaster F - E: 4.25, I: 3.70, N: 3.38
Better stats? E or F?
I'm just curious as to what others think :)
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www.coasterimage.com
Dorney Park Visits in 2003: 16
I think all this stuff about E>I>N is largely bull, as the game is pretty self regulating
i.e. if your nausea or intensity is too high it automatically reduces your excitement, which means IMHO you can pretty much go by the Excitement alone. If the ride were ctoo nauseating or intense it would have a low E anyway, so I think a high E is the best judge of a ride no matter how high the I or N.
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Touchè, teacher, touchè.
If I'm building something for scenario play (rare anymore), I always try to keep the nausea and intensity levels down. I hate puke on my paths. I'd pick B,C, & F in that case.
If I'm just building a coaster for kicks, I try to make something that I feel is realistic. Consequenly, I'll let the intensity and nausea levels go up a bit on those. I'd pick A,D, and E for these.
Excitement - how fun it is to ride. The general "yippee" feeling about riding. You can never be too high in this regard. However a lower excitement can be just fine too if in ratio with the other ratings. I honestly feel a ride with 5-3-2 ratings is just as good or better than a ride with 9-8-5 ratings. (ratings being E,I,N)
Intensity - How "powerful a ride is", not how rough as many people believe. It defines the "feel" of the ride. Real world examples:
Nitro - high excitement, low intensity. It's fun, but it's a serious easy chair ride.
Hulk - high excitement, high intensity - It's fun, but it's a strong ride. You know you're on it.
Intensity is fine as long as you're under 10. It's a personal preference on how strong or laid back you want the ride to feel. In general lower may be better as you'll attract a broader range of peeps willing to subject themselves to your ride.
Nausea - how much a ride screws with your equilibrium. How "sick" you'll feel when you get off the ride. Lower is better.
Anyone disagree with anything major there?
In general I think too much emphasis is put on the excitement rating (in gameplay terms). As far as coasters go, most peeps are quite content with Excitement ratings of above 5 or so. It seems to be the intensity that determines more whether or not they'll ride. Nausea also plays a factor, but unless you have no clue in making coasters, you'll have Nausea in check.
I think we all can do moderate or better excitement and moderate or lower nausea, so the only real determining factor for most of the coasters you use in RCT is really the intensity. That's where the "lower intensity attracts more peeps in general" thing applies.
So to come full circle this is exactly the reason I think a 5-3-2 is just as good (or better in some cases) of a coaster as one that delivers 9-8-5 (or heck, even 9-7-4).
I think sometimes people just look for the "big" numbers and think it's better.
And here I am giving away the farm after two replies, but Chris pretty much nailed my theory in his reply.
I am more of a scenario player and my answers would be B,C,F without question. I expect most people who honestly answer to say A,D,E
I was pretty much wondering the motivation behins the two distinct ways of seeing it, but like I said, I think Chris wrote the thesis for me :)
Still interest in everyone's ideas on stats, including the original questions and the info brought up in the replies...
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www.coasterimage.com
Dorney Park Visits in 2003: 16
B, C, F
Why? Because guests don't see much of a difference between a very high and a high excitement rating. But they do tell the difference between a very high and a high intensity. In all of Gonch's examples, the three I picked would attract guests best. The excitements go only as low as high-medium (which still attracts guests) and the intensity is always low, meaning you'll never see a peep say "this ride is too intense for me". That's a good thing.
Unless you put a ride with an Extreme E rating next to the three I picked, you'll get plenty of guests. Just to go into some details:
Coaster B - E: 7.30, I: 5.60, N: 4.66
High E. That'll reel in guests. Low I, that won't scare them away.
Coaster C - E: 6:40, I: 4.12, N: 3.99
Again, a high E. More then enough to reel in guests, and the intensity won't ward off anyone.
Coaster F - E: 4.25, I: 3.70, N: 3.38
Put this ride at the entrance of any park and watch it be the first ride anyone goes on. Granted, it won't be the favorite, but people won't miss it.
There's my two cents.
So why do coasters with ratings similar to "Coaster B" get comments like "stats could be better" in CB Games?
I really wish some of those guys would come over and add some thoughts.
Coaster F - E: 4.25, I: 3.70, N: 3.38
Put this ride at the entrance of any park and watch it be the first ride anyone goes on. Granted, it won't be the favorite, but people won't miss it.
Exactly my intent with that "Demon" coaster that everyone hated. The point was lost somewhere along the way.
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www.coasterimage.com
Dorney Park Visits in 2003: 16
Excitement levels can be quite low and still attract guests. Like the twister rides for example. They really reel in guests. And if I'm not mistaken their E is in the low 2's.
But high intensity levels just scare them away, unless you cheat and make them all prefer 9 intensity. A ride with a high E and high I will get more guests then a ride with a very high E and a very high I. Because that high E is more then enough to be a guest favorite, but that very high I will just make them all run away. That's why I'm often humored by people who complain about things like "how does this medium E ride get more guests then my very high E coaster?". These are often people who don't at all care for intensity.
In conclusion,
High E + high I > very high E + very high I
A, C, E.
Because they can all be used for different bit in the park.
I like rides that are high in E and high in I because I think it represents those big scary coasters that you boast to your friends about how many times you've ridden it and haven't felt sick once :) As i'm from England that aren't a lot of examples of this (No Hulk/TTD/Superman etc.)
I also like the "warm-up" rides, I love getting into a park and the adrenaline rushing through deciding what to go on first and I prefer to build things up so want to start with the less intense happy ride before moving on to the big guns.
I don't know the code, but I think the guest thought "I'm not paying that much to go on ****" is directly tied to the "real" excitement rating, which decreases with time. I'm glad Omar brought up the Twist, because although it brings in guests at first, attendence drops off pretty quicky, and you have to lower the admission fee to get anyone to ride it. The inverted ship, with a 2x higher E (and I) has far more earning power, especially over the long haul.
I think higher E coasters might also attract more people to a park, but I have nothing to back it up. Anyone tried anything to see if this is true?
And I find it a little funny, LG, that you prefer coaster F to E when you have posted many more "butt-kicking" type rides than those like Demon. :) I always pegged you as more of an enthusiast than a scenario player.
Call me silly, but when I make a park, I don't just want it to be a money-making juggernaut with a coaster like C being the "main attraction." I like to try to thrill the pants off those little guys ;) (while still staying in the limits of profitability of course). And honestly, with some lower intensity rides around it, coaster with an I of 8 will still rake in the peeps, at least thats what I have seen.
So I'll say ACE, (which coincedentally is my fighter pilot call sign ;)), but the design of the coasters themselves would heavily influence my final choices.
*** This post was edited by RCTandy 9/15/2003 4:47:38 PM ***
To get a little more in-depth, I, like so many others, build quite alot of B&M designs. For the most part these designs are quite forgiving in the ratings department. E>I>N for these rides is nice, but try challenging yourself if you have ratings in mind. A big if there. Personally I think VH, H, M is a sweet combo for B&M's... Meaning the ride is quite exciting, nice and intense, and not too nauseating. A good "high end" scenario coaster. EX, VH, H is also pretty sweet in a wicked, "stand alone" design.
Now say when I build a B&M (or any other coaster) I tend to look at stats as a guideline or even restriction. Unfortunately no, it can't have 25 drops and 12 inversions, it'll be too intense. But occasionally it is interesting to see if I can pull off say a smooth 10 inversions and still get E>I>N, its tough, probably only possible with a floorless, but who knows?... Impress me. I'll admit, I think its a little lame the game restricts you like this. Whose to say you can't build a 15 inversion floorless that isn't ungodly intense, this game that's who. It comes down to the game's AI and stat programming, which ain't bad, but it wears on you after awhile.. for some time I was like "F you game, I'm smarter than you" even though I'm not, but you get the picture.
This said... I don't want to come across as being a stats enthusiast, its an interesting part of the game that deserves some attention. At the end of the day, I'm almost over stats. Unless they're super great, or super sad, with ride type in mind, I focus on the other aspects of the coaster. In general I think that's how it should be done.
Finally to answer the question, man this a long post, I'll choose BCE. Its kinda a random answer to a kinda random question. Personally I look at 7.68 (i think) as an important mark. This is were a stat goes from H to VH, and for some reason its the only mark I know. For awhile I paid alot of attention to that. Again, these days I focus on design and theming, trying to keep stats as good as possible, without seriously affecting the "coolness" of the ride.
I'm sure I haven't said anything you guys don't already know, I just needed to rant for awhile :)
*** This post was edited by scoot 9/16/2003 6:26:40 AM ***
Second off, stats aren't all that important to me. I try to imagine what the forces would be if the RCT coaster was real, using the data printout thing. If it stays within reasonable limits, it would be a good coaster.
Third off, I think it only matters how real/smooth the coaster looks. Basically if it has good pacing, and the stats aren't absolutley horrible, it's a good coaster.
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Favorite Steel: Nitro
Favorite Wood: Comet
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