The New Season at Six Flags

It might be close, but I don't believe it is done yet.

Regardless, it isn't whether it is *actually* hard to traverse. What matters is whether people *think* it is hard to traverse.

That whole perception is reality thing.

But, in any event, I had Baltimore in mind as a place covered by more than one park---that's all I meant by "market".

So are we on the same page now, or not? Practically anyone can pick up WTOP radio out of D.C. It's the highest ranked station in the area and they don't play music. In some markets, it's AM (1), and in others it's FM (2). From what I read that will all change and it'll be all FM stations. They have traffic and weather together on the eights twenty-four hours a day.

If anyone has any hesitation, all they need to do is listen to WTOP to find out what's going on down south, or check the Maryland Department of Transportation website cameras. I think the mixing bowl is only one bad section. On any given day, the Capital Beltway can be a parking lot. Rush hour starts around 5-5:30am and it's jammed at that hour of the morning.

Even if you clear the mixing bowl with ease, there's no guarantee that the ride will become any smoother afterwards. I remember one particularly bad Saturday afternoon. We got past the Capital Beltway and the mixing bowl fine, then WHAM! We were stuck in stop and go traffic all the way to Richmond on 95s. I worked for a sound company back then and we were easily an hour or more late to setup (it wasn't my fault) for a wedding reception.

To put things in perspective, I worked at a D.C. area nightclub. The bluegrass band that was to play was running way late (the whole audience was waiting for them). The female singer gets up onstage and in a heavy southern drawl says "I'm sorry we were late. I think there were more cars on that road than in the whole state of North Carolina."

i've said it every year the past 4 years...

everyone seemed to think six flags made a turnaround after the first 3 weeks of the season... wow eeverything is great, employee's are great, etc.

every year, the past 4 years, same comments.

and once again, i say... "will it stick?"

// alan j

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coasterguts said:
Personally, I will reserve judgement until the last day of the season. My home park, SFA, starts out great but by middle part of June they begin to tank.

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That is one thing that is unlikely to happen this year. The reason this happened in the past was that park GM bonuses were based exclusively on their individual park's operating cash flow. That's why park managers were quick to cut costs early in the season if they thought the bonus was in peril.

Shapiro's new bonus plan factors in things to keep GMs honest all season long. It's not just EBITDA anymore. We're talking per capita spending. We're talking customer satisfaction. We're talking cleanliness ratings.

No GM is going to let that slide when he realizes that how much a family spends in mid-August is worth as much as it spends in mid-June. Oh, and the fact that Shapiro has already dismissed 5 GMs should give them plenty of reasons to respect the new guy at the top.

Like I said, I'll reserve judgement. SFA's GM was one of the one's that tanked and I've felt all along there were reasons why SFA began to take after Memorial Day. Rides not being fixed, rides shutdown, they would start the season with five people on Batwing and Superman, then by the July 1st, the park would be down to a crew of three. Then staffing would improve for Fright Fest. I can't wait to start the season, a good first impression on opening day will go along way.

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So are we on the same page now, or not?

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Almost, but not quite. Yes, people in your market are served by more than one park. But no, *most* people do not think about whether a park three hours away is "better" than one that is one hour away for a day trip, especially if, in terms of attractions (big rolly-coasters, a waterpark, etc.), the two parks are comparable.

Remember: most seasonal park visitors visit only a single park, and that park only one time, during the course of a season.

When little Bobby Sixpack asks his parents if he can go to the amusement park, he asks to go to the one his friends are talking about. If he doesn't name a park specifically, his parents take him to the one most conveniently located, if the locations are non-trivially different. In either case, if the parks have a strong differential in terms of location, chances are good that the park in question is the one that's close by. Why? Jane and Joe Sixpack would rather not drop the change on a hotel room if they can help it.

Worse: if the Sixpacks' experience is a bad one, they don't come away from it thinking "next year, we should go to a different theme park." They come away thinking "next year, we're going to the Orioles game instead."

*** Edited 3/12/2006 1:45:02 PM UTC by Brian Noble***

SFoT was great this weekend. The workers were pretty nice, and I only had a problem with one of the ride ops. She was kind of rude, but I don't want to go into that.

Characters were out. Batman wasn't jumping over the lines, but that would be something I would pay to see.

Rides were running at almost all trains on every ride. Ride ops were almost running to get the trains going out of the station, and they were really interacting with the people nicely.

I'm really impressed with the park this year. I hope they keep this up, but hopefully it won't cost me more money.

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Brian Noble said:
When little Bobby Sixpack asks his parents if he can go to the amusement park, he asks to go to the one his friends are talking about.

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I grew up next to the Sixpacks! ;)

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Brian Noble said:

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So are we on the same page now, or not?

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Almost, but not quite. Yes, people in your market are served by more than one park. But no, *most* people do not think about whether a park three hours away is "better" than one that is one hour away for a day trip, especially if, in terms of attractions (big rolly-coasters, a waterpark, etc.), the two parks are comparable.

Remember: most seasonal park visitors visit only a single park, and that park only one time, during the course of a season.

When little Bobby Sixpack asks his parents if he can go to the amusement park, he asks to go to the one his friends are talking about. If he doesn't name a park specifically, his parents take him to the one most conveniently located, if the locations are non-trivially different. In either case, if the parks have a strong differential in terms of location, chances are good that the park in question is the one that's close by. Why? Jane and Joe Sixpack would rather not drop the change on a hotel room if they can help it.

Worse: if the Sixpacks' experience is a bad one, they don't come away from it thinking "next year, we should go to a different theme park." They come away thinking "next year, we're going to the Orioles game instead."

*** Edited 3/12/2006 1:45:02 PM UTC by Brian Noble***

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I usually never use someone's whole statement, but this is an exception, as it wouldn't make sense other wise. Anyway, I think what you're saying is absolutely untrue. You just don't know the people around this area like I do. If they talk crap about SFA, as many people do, they talk about how much better Buch Gardens is or Hersheypark, or PKD. These are long established parks with the reputations to back it up. The parents have all probably been to these parks as kids. I'm old enough to have teenage kids, and I'd choose Hersheypark over SFA if we could only choose one park.

Again, my parents have never been coaster enthusiasts, but yet they took us three kids to all three of those parks when I was a kid. There was usually a trade-off to that went with the trips. Since my dad is a huge history buff, we always had to go to civil war sites etc., before or after we went to the parks.

My Catholic elementary school went to Hersheypark for our 8th-grade class trip (that was a long tradition). Do they go to SFA now instead? I don't know, but someone how I doubt it seeing how rough the park is at times.

Get a hotel room? Why? Unless you're going to Busch and also doing Colonial Williamsburg, you really don't need one. All three of the big parks are daytrips.

Go to an Orioles game? Sure people do that, but last year they were horrible. Why would someone want to subject themeselves to that misery?:)

Sorry, I-Fan, but I just don't believe you are representative, and everything I've read about amusement park attendance suggests that. If most seasonal visitors visit at most one park, one time, per season, then convenience absolutely plays a large factor. And, from all accounts, most visitors fit this categorization---it's a once-a-summer or less event. You can tell me about you, your neighbors, and your catholic grade school, but it's all anecdotal.

And as for this:

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Go to an Orioles game? Sure people do that, but last year they were horrible. Why would someone want to subject themeselves to that misery?

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2.6 million people did. Almost, but not quite, equal to Hersheypark's 2005 draw of 2.7. Of course, the Orioles did that in only 80 operating days, rather than nearly 120.

In any event, you're not going to change my mind, and it appears I'm not going to change yours, so if you'd like the last word, you are welcome to it.

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Intamin Fan said:

Excuse me, Cedar Fair parks are unique? How? To me Dorney Park looks almost exactly the same as Cedar Point (granted DP is smaller). The first thing you see is the carousel just like CP. The trashcans all look the same as CP. Instead of Raptor, you've got Talon to your right. They've even got a Coasters restaurant. Then there is White Water Landing, which is the same as Snake River Falls at CP. Instead of Magnum--which is an overgrown mine train, they got Steel Force--which is an overgrown mine train (whoops, sorry I didn't mean to be redundant). The newest Cedar Fair coaster--Patriot--is basically Talon with new colors. So how would I be suprised if I'd already been to Dorney Park? Do I need to continue? Nah, I didn't think so.

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Unfortunately, you are 100% right about that. Since Cedar Fair acquired Dorney, it seems like anything unique to Dorney (Journey, Iceberg, Gold Mine Building, Rockets) as well as a bunch of pre-Cedar Fair rides like the sky ride, Joker, Hercules etc. are all gone. I guess that's what Cedar Fair wanted, for Dorney to be a mini Cedar Point *** Edited 3/13/2006 4:53:01 AM UTC by YoshiFan***

Im sorry I think an inverted coaster simmilar to Talon that is still more unique than a Batman Clone found at many Six Flags parks.

I-Fan took the words right of my mouth. People in the Washington/Baltimore area have long since gone to BGW, PKD, HP and even SFGadv. Senior class trips in high school were to Great Adventure and I doubt they go to SFA now. Why? Because of tradition and maybe a little bit of the lack of quality at SFA.

Actually, I do get a hotel room at BGW. Not because I tour Colonial Williamsburg but because I usually leave the park tired and don't feel like the long drive home afterwards.

It seems to have turned into a single region debate, so I'm gonna add that Balt-DC folk are routinely accustomed to driving 2.5 hours (if there is no traffic) to Rehoboth or OC (where they can do Trimpers or Jolly Rogers and a million other things that keep the kids happy). And not everyone spends the night there. If that's the summer norm, of course KD & BG are options to the southerners, HP, DP, and SFGAdv to the northerners. & coming from OC, yes, we made the trips to KD & BG (one a year) because they were worth the trip. I think the easy access to other parks is why SFA is offering the Play Pass, to get people who come once just because it's close and easy to come again during the same season instead of making a longer trip elsewhere. If they have a good experience this year, perhaps it will become a desirable destination for them in the future.

I would just like to add that Im a DC resident this year (student) and the only park I bought a season pass to was BGW/WCUSA because its the best park in the area (not to mention north of Flordia) and 2.5 hours is how long Im acustomed to driving to a park back in WI (SFGAm) so the drive doesnt bother me.