The future of parks. Your opinion counts!
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To profit:
Lets keep this to the basics, parks need to make profits and they do this by attracting the GP. If charing for the VQ brings in more dollars to the park this enables the park to build more rides etc. and in turn lowers the amount of people in the lines. Also the new rides continue to attract the GP to continue to revisit the park. If the people that do not purchase in the VQ get upset because of the VQ and decide not to revisit, then this will also cut into the profits. The bottom line is does having a VQ profit the park?
Not to profit:
If the park does not charge for a VP this only upsets the people standing in the lines. Yes this does make the people that use the system happy, but the majority are not going to be happy. I believe that a free VQ would not be profitable to the parks.
The third solution is to make the entrance fee higher. This will reduce the number of people in the park and reduce the number of people in line. The people that do pay the higher fee make up for the lost revenue of the people who were not wiling to pay the higher fee. I am sure that parks understand this concept of deminishing returns. Also the the lost number of people will reduce the sales at concession and souvenir stands. Again less profit.
So it seems that the VQ will be the future and not a thing of the past.
I'm not convinced these system result in more profit or a happier guest, since, as I've been theorizing, people exect to wait anyway. I'm going to eat three times a day at a park visit, and I probably won't buy souveniers until the end of the day, so those aren't variables in what I spend. Just because I have more time out of the queue doesn't mean I'll spend more.
I'm just not convinced that hard core research has been done on this, especially with the various incarnations of FastLane. Disney is all about making something close to perfect, the whole package, so I don't doubt they thought long and hard about it.
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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"
There should only be one class of rider: You go to the beginning of the line, you wait in line, when your turn comes you ride, and if you want to ride again, you go back to the beginning of the line. Any other system is just going to piss people off, without doing anything to change the rate of ridership.
On the topic of improving capacity, I believe that all rides should be specifically built to accomodate as many riders as possible. For example, MF was good with this in that it has a seperate place for loading and unloading. This greatly increases capacity. On the other hand, SOB has up to a full minute of lag time between trains when there is no train in the station. This problem could have been solved by adding another set of brakes before the station so that it could run three trains.
As far as what the parks should invest in, I think they should alternate between building huge, expensive thrill rides one year and smaller, capacity increasing rides the next year. Every ride should have some sort of entertainment in the line. Disney does this very well, but for most parks Disney's methods would merely create a longer waiting time. I think PKI has a good solution with TV moniters showing rides, movie clips, and songs.
As far as lines go, most people prefer the 'old fashioned' idea of standing in line for a coaster as long as they know ahead of time what the wait will be for a particular ride. Well placed signs should indicate how long the line is from given points. It adds to the amusement park atmosphere.
quailroberts said:
As far as lines go, most people prefer the 'old fashioned' idea of standing in line for a coaster as long as they know ahead of time what the wait will be for a particular ride. Well placed signs should indicate how long the line is from given points. It adds to the amusement park atmosphere.
It certainly would go a LONG way toward maximizing capacity...and the extra staff they now use to run these "scams" could be used to staff other rides! Now THAT is what I would call "improving the guest experience"...
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the buzzer formerly known as gatorwoodie
Son of Drop Zone - PKI CoasterCamp I Champions!!!
quailroberts said:
"On the topic of improving capacity, I believe that all rides should be specifically built to accomodate as many riders as possible. For example, MF was good with this in that it has a seperate place for loading and unloading. This greatly increases capacity. On the other hand, SOB has up to a full minute of lag time between trains when there is no train in the station. This problem could have been solved by adding another set of brakes before the station so that it could run three trains."
Actually, MF is a BAD example of increasing capacity. It would have a greater PPH if there was a mid course brake run, say somewhere in the vicinity of the turnaround, that would allow for two loaded trains on the course and one in the station (ala Raptor, Magnum) instead of two in the station and one on the course. But that would kill the whole "speed demon" concept so the next best thing was to automatically "stack" a train.
And FYI, Sonny *does* have a midcourse break run: that long straight away into the loop, so it is *capable* of running 3 trains. Why they do not, is a question I cannot answer.
And Jeff, while you perhaps may not spend any more money, I'm willing to wager the average person might. If one has extra time on their hands, they will be more inclined to check out the shops they normally would pass by. Or drop in on a show where, coincidentally, they serve soda, snacks and the "nectar of the gods" BEER. Not to mention that now one actually has a moment to play that game of Skee-ball (or Dance Dance Revolution for the younger folks :)). I can see how "conciveably" a park can realize an increase in in park spending.
Now the big question is does it work in practice? The Paramount and SKI execs obviously felt that it benefitted Disney, but only the future will really tell how long this will play out. It's an experiment ladies and gentlemen. And yes, we are the guinea pigs. Dont like it? Dont go!
lata,
jeremy
--who has about 100 pages of heat transfer to read tonight...
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Yeeee Haaawwww!
*** This post was edited by janfrederick on 11/7/2001. ***
First of all, the expense isn't the problem...it's the percieved value that is the problem. People are annoyed not simply because the parks are expensive, but because more and more it seems that the enormous cost of admission isn't enough anymore. $10 to park the car a half-mile from the gate with no tram service. Once inside, at practically every turn the hapless customer is being asked for more cash. A souvenir photo at the front gate. A drink. A map. A bite to eat. Games of skill. All the normal stuff. Only now it isn't just the normal stuff. Add in high fees for locker rental, waterpark tube rental, climbing walls, Go-Karts, Skycoaster, haunted houses, special attractions, and on and on and on.
You then wait in a long line for a ride, but you find that the park has artificially lengthened the line by bringing in other people ahead of you...then you learn it's because they paid an extra $10 for the privelige of not waiting in line. So as a result, what does this customer think? That the park is too expensive and the lines are too long. The park hasn't done a thing to fix the problem.
There are answers to both problems, of course. Long lines? The only answer is ultimately capacity. Correcting a capacity problem can be tricky because first you have to know what the cause is. Too many people for the park, in which case total ride capacity needs to be increased? Or simply a population distribution problem. If that's the case, then some active queue management...not virtual queues, but rather decision-making aids such as "your time to wait" signs or just a bit of data for the customer to let him know that there are shorter lines available. Of course, the great thing is that if the capacity problem is solved, it isn't hard to convince the customer that he's getting a good value for his money. He spends the day in the park, he has a great time, he goes home tired and happy, not exhausted and angry.
Just some random thoughts at 1:30am.
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
RideMan said:
Of course, the great thing is that if the capacity problem is solved, it isn't hard to convince the customer that he's getting a good value for his money. He spends the day in the park, he has a great time, he goes home tired and happy, not exhausted and angry.
AND, I might add, I'm more willing to purchase souvenirs (which I also do at the END of the day so I don't have to carry it with me all day). On to souvenirs, since the parks haven't figured it out yet: they are the absolute best form of FREE advertising on EARTH! People walking around with t-shirts and hats, bumper stickers on their cars, (my personal fav, my $10 SOB watch)...we the people are ADVERTISING for the parks, free of charge. When people ask me about the t-shirt I'm wearing, and I say something like "ride X is fantastic - the best ever", you can NOT buy that - you have to earn it. Customer relations means much more than spouting out some slogan, it means MAKING PEOPLE HAPPY - that's WHY we go to amusement parks in the first place...and those parks that do the best job (HW comes to mind right away, but there are many others) - those are the ones that I am happy to advertise for...
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the buzzer formerly known as gatorwoodie
Son of Drop Zone - PKI CoasterCamp I Champions!!!
Heck, I wear my Indiana Beach shirt all the time even though they probably get very little business from my neck of the woods. Even so, I think it was the best value park I'd ever been to. $15 for 6 hours of great rides and cool atmosphere? Sure! $2 for mini golf and $1 for a replay? I'm there. The food and accomodations were reasonable too. Oh..and did I mention one of the best rollercoasters out there? To quote our favorite Austrian actor: "I'll be back..."
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"I'll bet that thing hits 5 Gs going through that loop.....faaar ooouut!"
*** This post was edited by janfrederick on 11/8/2001. ***
Here we go:
1. COVERED CUES ARE A MUST!
It would be the cheapest addition to any ride at any park and it makes a HUGE difference. I have been badly sunburned many times while waiting under the beating sun for 2-hours! NO FUN!
2. ENTERTAIN THE CUES!
...But NOT NOT NOT with music videos and commercials!!!
I agree that things along the lines of Disney's method are the best. Even how you build the cue itself can be made interesting. (Like MANTIS's cue at CP) If you amuse or entertain me while I wait 2-hours for a 2-minute ride, I will always be a repeat customer. This will come down to the CREATIVITY of the individual parks...which is a good thing.
3. FAST PASSES ARE NEW TERRITORY:
Some methods work better than others. But whatever you do...DON'T create unnecessary conflict among the patrons! I think the Virtual Cues are a disaster. It makes people angry to wait forever and then see people get right on in front of them. And empty seats on a train during a busy day is just dumb no matter how you look at it.
--- Six Flags Great America has an OK system: The fast passes allow you to get into the line "near" the front, but you will still have to wait a little bit, and you enter the station in the main line so every seat fills up in the usual fasion. There do not seem to be any people objecting to this practice, but they do charge a good fee for the passes.
4. FAST PASS SUGGESTION:
Some sort of fast pass is becoming a must.
If I can only go on 4 or 5 rides in an entire day because I spent 8 hours waiting in cues THEN FORGET IT! That's masochistic. It's not worth the $60+ price tag attached to that day! I am starting to overhear a LOT of average people voicing that exact complaint, and I think a lot of them are starting to look for other things to do....meaning NOT coming back to that amusement park!
--- WHAT IF...every ticket came with a FREE "fast coupon" for 1 ride. The park could easily program the distribution so that tickets varied the ride and the ride time window (this would minimize bunching up). You would not be able to control what ride or time you got, but I think most people would still be OK with it because it will add more to what you can do with your time in one day...AND IT WOULD NOT COST EXTRA! (Maybe people could trade with other people if they wanted a fast pass for a particular ride or time....)
..........So, what do people think of my suggestion?
5. QUIT ROBBING ME!
Yes! I WOULD buy WAY more drinks and food if they were sold at a normal price. As it is right now, I am one of those people who BRINGS food and drinks to the park and keeps them in a cooler in the car! Big loss for the park! (Everyone seems to be hip to this now!) The end result of their gouging is that I actively try to give them nothing. Bad business practice.
6. A FRIENDLY STAFF MAKE ALL THE DIFFERENCE!
PKI and CP seem to know this. Their people are great!
...and who is that little star of a blond kid who works THE BEAST? He's GREAT! Pat Sajack ain't got nuthin' on him! That energy and effort they put out really helps make it a great experience!
The people at Great America near Chicago are TERRIBLE in comparison (but in fairness there are some who try)and it can really kill the experience.
7. CLEAN, PRETTY PARKS GET REPEAT BUSINESS.
Enough said.
8. YES TO MORE SMALL RIDES....I THINK.
I personally love the smaller rides. Ah, the joy of a Hay Bailer, the wonderful ill-dizzyness of an Orbit! I always hit all of these rides when I go to a park, so this approach will get my money. The funny thing is, I'm not sure that really works in reality. What I mean by that is this: People don't seem to care. I was just at SFGA for Fright-fest and it was PACKED! I mean PAAAACKED! (1.5 to 3 hour wait for all the biggies...and there are many biggies there.) But there was NOBODY lined up at the 5 or so small flat rides. We got on every one of them after waiting only ONE ride cycle! WHAT'S WRONG WITH PEOPLE?!? hee hee...
It's a shame, but it's reality. I only hope that other parks are doing better with the small rides because if they are not a profitable investment for the park then we will eventually lose them :-(
For me - the addition of multiple small thrill rides WILL bring me to the park.
9. (last) SECURITY MUST BE ROCK-SOLID.
You don't harass or abuse people at a park. Period. If you do, you're out. Period. No discussion.
There must be ample security personnel at the park and they must be super nice but super firm as well. You mouth off to them or the park staff and you are gone. Immediately. IF this is not adhered to then the jerks move in real fast. I've seen this happen at some parks and word gets around very quickly! I'm not advocating Gestappo tactics or some Leave-it-to-Beaver Stepford-esque zombieland, but hey, this ain't the street and everyone pays a lot of money to get in these places so we all have to raise the standard of our behavior a little to keep it all fun! :-)
...WOW! Was that long!
Rock out everyone!
~Tocci
kip099 said:
on a busy day at Disney you can get a fastpass at noon with a return time of 5:00. At a park like Disney, this isn’t really a problem because people tend to stay all day to see shows, parades, etc. At a Six Flags, however, you may want to pop in for a few hours, ride a few rides, and leave. If there is a fastpass system and all the "big" rides have three hour "virtual" lines, you can’t do this.
Who is going to "pop" into a SF park after paying $35+ bucks and then leave after a short stay? The people who go to the park for a quickie are generally season pass holders. That said, I think the Fast Pass is geared more towards a person who only has one day at a park, it may be that person's only chance to get to a park all year. Being able to buy a fast pass will ensure this guest that they will definately get to ride all the high profile rides. Season pass holders will have several chances to ride all the rides in a given season, whether they wait or buy into the fastpass system. In the end, if somebody wants to "pop" into a park and the fastpass doesn't work into their schedule, they'll just have to wait. No biggie, just the normal condition of going to a park and wanting to ride a popular ride.
I personally like the Disney system and have never had a problem with it. I've heard people on this board complain that "I don't want to be told when I have to ride a particular ride." (this is from previous threads earlier in the season) Statements like that tick me off because 1) it's a free service that nobody is forcing you to use and 2) every time you wait in line you're being told when you get to ride (i.e. the wait is 2 hours from this point). Personally I'd rather spend my 2 hours walking around, maybe getting on another ride and then walking on when it's my turn. I don't understand why some people have a problem with this. Everybody gets a certain number of fastpasses per admission ticket, you can only have one fastpass at a time, and only certain rides in the park have fastpass available (generally the rides with the longest waits). Works well for me and has certainly enhanced my trips to WDW, Epcot, MGM and DCA.
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the buzzer formerly known as gatorwoodie
Son of Drop Zone - PKI CoasterCamp I Champions!!!
6. A FRIENDLY STAFF MAKE ALL THE DIFFERENCE! PKI and CP seem to know this. Their people are great! ...and who is that little star of a blond kid who works THE BEAST? He's GREAT! Pat Sajack ain't got nuthin' on him! That energy and effort they put out really helps make it a great experience!
Sounds like Brian. Saved my day at PKI this summer past.
Well, the Disney sustem won't actually get you on more rides. And it is pretty aggravating when people are getting let in front of you if you didn't grab a ticket earlier.
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"I'll bet that thing hits 5 Gs going through that loop.....faaar ooouut!"
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