The Beast POV - 1979 vs 2011 side-by-side

Very well put mlnem4s. You have encouraged me to visit KI this fall and ride the classic once again. The Beast will always remain on my top 5 list of all time greats.

Thanks to robotfactory for the ride comparison, I too didn't know the 1979 version existed. 

I have my own POVs with the skids and the magnetics, I only need to watch them to know which version I prefered. The first time I rode the Beast I was ecstatic throughout the ride and said "OMG the best ride ever" when it ended. During the magnetic brakes ride I was practically silent apart from "OMG what have they done to it" about halfway through.

My riding partner agreed with me, and we had hyped the ride up so much to a friend who was having his ever first ride he couldn't understand why we had praised it so much.

Regardless of whether its faster or not, the skids were less noticeable and gradually slowed the train whereas I could feel the magnetics grab and slow the train instantly which to me spoiled the ride.

I was sad to learn when they announced they were removing the Son of Beast, but I just watched my POV of that and the bruises on my arms on my journey home so I won't be missing it. Pure EVIL.

Jeff said:

Coaster Rider X said:

As with every wooden coaster, the slowest the ride will ever run will be in the initial break in period. It's not uncommon for many wooden coasters of average length to gain 10 plus seconds around their course in comparison to the first runs.

I don't exactly agree with this. It stands to reason that the newer the ride is, the more rigid it is and less likely to lose energy from the structure and track flexing about. One might argue that the rolling stock has some break-in time, but that would occur every spring.

The train accounts for some of the speed improvement from initial test runs; but, the track on a wooden coaster have hard and soft spots in both the wood and the steel that will work themselves out. Typically the trains will "free-up" the gauge and allow for extra speed as the track breaks in. Of course, the break in is a slippery slope as like most things - it's all based on a curve. The track will improve to a point and then from then on, it will start the downward curve as performance degrades. Too much slop in the gauge or too much sag in the track are the usual culprits.

With the long wheelbase trains on The Beast the first year (and even now), they would certainly hasten the diminishing returns of break in as they would slide and chatter around the track. Over the years, when you factor in all the extra (and unessessary) weight of the headrests, extra seat dividers, seatbelts, articulating lap bars it's amazing the ride has held up as well as it has.

Oh and Dave re: the brakes on the 2nd drop, I was always told it was due to the track sag that would occur at the bottom. I was also told that when the footers were switched from single pilings to the solid pour, this problem wasn't as big of a concern.

Coaster Rider X said:

Mister Hyde would happen when you ripped through the shed and your hopes were fullfilled and you would get that very rare event. A brakeless Beast ride actually seemed out of control because it was so rare that your normal perception of the ride was altered. Every moment was maginfied as your conditioning of how fast and forceful the ride should be changed so much. The Beast would rope-a-dope you and then land a knockout blow occasionally when you least suspected it.

Yes! I had 3 of these that I at least remember. I'm thinking the first time was in 1987 and it scared the daylights out of me. Although completely different layout-wise than Voyage, Voyage is the only coaster other than these few "Mister Hyde" rides I had on Beast, where I thought the train was literally going to leave the track.

Locals would say you were getting a good ride on the Beast if the back car grabbed the 2nd lift PAST the phone booth.

Another factor in that 1979 video is the 4 bench cars - the need a LOT Of grease to speed smoothly around those curves. Texas Cyclone had better luck with 3 bench cars as well. TC had trains stuck on the first 2 curves with the old 4 benchers, and that was mostly eliminated when they switched to 3 benchers.

But the time in the early 90s, I'm thinking 92 was the year. The entire ride got a good - and permanent - "overall slowing down." Everything was slower. Any potential for BITE seemed to vanish around then, maybe a bit earlier. When did they get clamp brakes?

Wait.

The conversation after two pages is still about how the ride is slower and a shell of itself even when we have side-by-side POVs showing a faster ride now?

I don't have a point. I'm just...ummm...yeah.

Not to mention the fact that the old video has been known to be a video of a light/slow test run since the get-go. Maybe I should've written it in bold the first time. Ah, well, maybe this will help instead:

In case anyone needs further proof that the original old (1979-80) video was a slow test, here's a re-doubling with a different all-skid era POV. Left is all-skids, with a loaded train, right is present day magnets, also with a loaded train. I tried to match it up to when the trains leave the lift and couldn't because the doubler doesn't let me work in fractions of a second, so the present day one is about a second ahead to start.

By the time they reach the second lift, the all-skid ride is ahead by several seconds.

The skids slowed more gradually, yes, but the skidded ride is still noticeably faster after the first long brake shed. It stands to reason then that the mags slow the ride down more (not just more abruptly), because otherwise the long un-braked section of the shed before the magnets should give the present-day ride an edge in first-drop-to-second-lift time.

So if we assume that these videos are accurate representations of the skid vs. magnet eras of the Beast, then old, skid-braked Beast was demonstrably faster. Problem?

And here I thought the only use of POV's was getting through the off season without an actual coaster ride. ;)

We could discuss this to no end, but what is the point? If the ride is faster or slower now than what it was 10,20 or 30 years ago, it is still a fun ride.

It's also entirely possible that I could find a late-day, hot, fully-loaded, post-rain POV of the Beast from this year that comes in as fast or faster than the old all-skid. Especially on a woodie, there are many factors at play. Get too hyper-analytical and you'll soon end up only drawing conclusions about the videos, not the ride itself.

Speaking of which, I still need to make it out there to experience the thing first-hand. Hoping that SOB's eventual replacement finally completes the lineup enough to make it a destination park for me.

I always thought the biggest draw for The Beast in its day was that it had two lift hills and meandered endlessly through the woods...something that was pretty unique back then. You can squabble about seconds of speed all you want. I think if you still get into the mindset when you ride that you are embarking on a journey through the woods, then you can have just as much fun as you ever did on this coaster. That's my take on it.

I like the ride for what it is. It doesn't have the airtime, laterals or any of the crap that enthusiasts insist on having, but so what? I think it's fun.

Precisely. I was elated both times I rode it, and I haven't even had a night ride, something I hear that I haven't yet lived until that happens. I almost don't want one, because I really don't want to discover that my last 40 years on this planet were a complete waste.

In all seriousness, it's still a top 5 woodie. I haven't ridden Diamondback yet, but I could justify a trip to Kings Island based on it and Beast alone, regardless of what SoB's replacement is.

Vater said:

I haven't ridden Diamondback yet, but I could justify a trip to Kings Island based on it and Beast alone, regardless of what SoB's replacement is.

This is what made working at KI over the summer amazing. The big bash at the end of the summer consisted of these two in the dark from 9pm-1am with no lines. Oh and free funnel cakes, pretzels, pizza, etc. :)

Even if Beast is a few seconds faster or slower than whenever, it is still one of the best coasters of all time. Any given wooden coaster will offer a differing ride from time to time anyways, depending on many factors.

BBSpeed26 said:

Speaking of which, I still need to make it out there to experience the thing first-hand. Hoping that SOB's eventual replacement finally completes the lineup enough to make it a destination park for me.

Gonch will disagree with me, but my opinion of Kings Island is that it is an amazing park, and the coaster lineup is more than complete. If you ever get the chance to go, new coaster or no, get out there. Beast alone is worth the trip, but then you have:

an incredible B&M steel airtime machine

a fast and unique mine train

a classic racing woody

an old Arrow megalooper that sits way over the ground

a highly themed family launched coaster

a highly themed launched spaghetti bowl in the dark

a fast suspended coaster in the woods

a new Windseeker

a giant spinning pendulum ride

A very tall drop tower

an authentic steam train ride in the woods

an very tall observation tower

a unique ghost blaster with a few very cool special effects

a truckload of water rides

a gigantic water park

...Oh yea, I almost forgot; and a Flying Dutchman too. :)

Kings Island is a very well rounded park, in my opinion. Anything they add to the park nowadays is just icing on the cake.

The funny thing is that you're kind of right, Travis. They do have a well-rounded line-up of rides.

So I guess that means (for me at least) rides do not make or break the park.

I understand that, Gonch. You are entitled to your opinion about KI. I don't think that Cedar Point (The best amusement park in the world!) is all that and a bag of chips, and someone out there is guaranteed to disagree with me about that.

It funny how a conversation shifts around so much here at CB.

I agree with Travis, KI is a great park. But so is Cedar Point. KI doesn't give me much of a reason to go because it's nearly the same experience as CP.

I don't want to kick up the old Flyers controversy, but once the Flyers left, CP got its Huss giant frisbee, the Beast became predictable, and CF then taking over the park, KI has become 'meh' because its the same cookie cutter experience as CP. Despite the collection of rides when it was a Paramount park, the guest experience was vastly different. So for me as a dad with three boys, am I going to stuff the kids in the car for a 3 hour trip one way for a similar experience as CP that's 45 minutes away that also has a beach? Apparently not.

Gonch doesn't have an excuse, he's closer to KI. I think its because he's mean.

We'll see what the future holds, but its a major reason why I haven't gone back to the park in over 3 years.

~Rob

The real reason KI sucks now is that there's no BeastBuzz.

DiamondBuzz 2013? ;)

@Travis - it's not that the lineup isn't well rounded or great, it's that of the rides you listed, only two are what I would consider world-class (Beast, Diamondback). The rest are mostly good, even better-than-average for their ride type, but they're all "if I'm there, I'd ride it" rides, not "I would travel out of my way to experience it" rides.

To preface all that - I'm a good 4.5 hours driving away. That's beyond what I consider a reasonable day trip. If I were in the area and had a spare day - no brainer: I go to KI. For me to plan a trip around it though, I'd need at least one additional world-class attraction to open up. Is that greedy? Maybe, but I also don't expect SOB's follow up to be low-thrill or canned & off-the-shelf, so I don't necessarily think it's an unrealistic expectation. Heck - if SOB hadn't been such a total clusterf- of a bust, they'd be good to go now.

If I find myself with a spare day west of Columbus - I'll be at KI in a heartbeat. Until then, I'll wait until the next few years' worth of Cedar Fair announcements come and go and reevaluate then. Maybe there'll even be a BeastBuzz to plan my travels around?

That makes sense. I'm not sure I'd make a 4.5 hour drive for a day trip to KI either. My visit was part of a 3-park trip primarily for Millennium Force and Son of Beast (the latter being a disappointment) when they both opened in 2000.