The $3 million Q-bot

I seriously have not seen the problems that many have said to have seen at this park. I have been to Great Adventure this past summer and the summer before that. Both times were two day trips that included a Saturday in either July or early August. Both time, I have gotten on all the rides I wanted to on the Saturday. Kingda Ka at most I waited was two hours. El Toro I waited for 2.5 hours. Rolling Thunder and the Great American Scream Machine I waited at most 5 minutes. Medusa was either a walk on or maybe 20 minutes. The Chiller I waited probably an hour. Batman-The Ride had a 45 minute wait. Nitro was a 30 minute wait and Skull Mountain was at most 20 minutes. Superman was the only ride I had complaints about where the line was 1.5 hours. The line wasnt bad, however there was constant line jumping and break downs. Also while waiting, they took a train off. The dispatch times were horrible as well, I would say they were about the same as X-Flight was when it was SFWoA. Besides Superman, the lines were bearable and the park was very clean. no over flowing trash cans or rude employees by anymeans.

I think q-bots are a nice luxory to have, however I have never used one and have never found the need to have one. Sure the lines could have been shorter or they could have had more staff on the rides. And maybe El Toro could have had two trains going. Yeah, there are problems with the park, however, compared to Magic Mountain, SFGAdv is without a doubt much better. And the guests at Great adventure, I have had great encounters with some, but over all, I think that they need to be cleaned up more so than the park. They are some of the rudest people out there. Six Flags really needs to crack down on the line jumping in the Superman line, however I must say a couple people did get removed from the line for cutting. They really need security monitoring those lines.

How about the so-called Lexus lanes they want to install in Maryland? I believe they are already constructing some up north on I-95. For an extra fee, you can bypass the congested traffic.

These lanes already exist in other congested parts of the country. Is it fair? Well, no, but if you've got the money and you've got to get somewhere fast, you'll pay the money.

How about the EZ-pass system that many states have? Do you know how much time we would have saved on our midwest trip if we had one? Instead, we were required to wait with the "normal" people in the cash-only lanes.

Why should we be penalized because we can only pay in cash? We could've saved major time on the Chicago Skyway (which was under construction) if we had one.

(By the way, that's a lesson learned for next year if we make it out to the midwest again. I'll have to research how much those things are.)

$3 Million in extra revenue for doing nothing really "different" when the program probably has minimal expenses is a no brainer.

I'll keep it nicely this time. Personally, I don't like line jumping systems much.

The problem with Six Flags, however, is the way that they run their parks. To me, if you want to implement a line jumping system, do so at the very least expense of the people who don't want to use them.

For starters, operate your rides at capacity. Second, don't sell so many Q-bots! Put a reasonable limit on the amount in use.

I'd rather parks operate like Cedar Point and BGE. Operate rides at or near capacity and forget the line-jumping systems--it complicates things, anyway.

Other parks are getting into it, just not as in-your-face or obnoxious about it with signs everywhere taunting people "you didn't pay for this service of skipping line"

For example, Dorney has their new "VIP" program (well, new for 2006 anyway), where you pay a considerable amount and essentially get right on all the rides, with a guided tour.

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To me, if you want to implement a line jumping system, do so at the very least expense of the people who don't want to use them.

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And that seems to be the crux of the issue with Q-bot. As has been pointed out most large parks offer some sort of chance to 'beat the system' by simply dropping some cash. The difference is that they're often limited by price (in the case of CF's VIP deals) or by sheer number (Disney's free system).

And even when paying a little more clearly gets you more rides than the 'standard' paying guest at Disney (resort guests getting addition hours in the morning and at night) it is done in a way to have little impact or even little notice by non-participants. (because face it - those people are getting more rides because they paid more)

So why does SF do their dirty work out in the open for all to see - even at the potential expense of turning off a certain segment of guests?

I think we need to go back to Jeremy's post for the answer:

"He told me that a couple in line with them asked why his wait was shorter than theirs with the regular q-bot. When he replied that he had gold, they didnt get mad at him or the system, they were frustrated with themselves for not getting the gold and vowed to do so next time."

There are no cold, hard numbers available to us, but I find myself wondering how many people you win over like this for every guest you lose by showing them the class difference. Because if you're going to piss off a certain segment of guests while retaining another - then I think the folks who would never dream of paying more that the gate price are the ones to go and the people who accept the additional 'value' of instantly spending another $40 once inside the gate are the ones I want staying.

The fact that SF's attendance dropped by 12%, but revenue dropped just 1% says to me it's starting to work. And those numbers are meaningless unless you really put it in simple terms and think about it, so lets do that based on those 3rd quarter results:

In 2005 - In a generic given time period 100 people come through the gate and spend a total of $100

In 2006 - During that same time period 88 people come through the gate and spend a total of $99

That's really a monumental shift in how they're doing business. And a 1% revenue drop isn't the end of the world - Cedar Fair announced the same 1% revenue drop for their 3rd quarter on a same-park basis. It's just that CF is in a infinitely better position in terms of the strength of their business than SF is.

And yes, SF operations blow goat. They have for many moons now. But what happens when (if?) they get their stuff together?

I think the surprising answer is that Q-bots still sell well and why on Earth would you overlook the additional income source if your guests are willing to pay. Because in the case of the Jersey park, $3,000,000 says they are willing.

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Intamin Fan said:

How about the EZ-pass system that many states have? Do you know how much time we would have saved on our midwest trip if we had one? Instead, we were required to wait with the "normal" people in the cash-only lanes.

Why should we be penalized because we can only pay in cash? We could've saved major time on the Chicago Skyway (which was under construction) if we had one.

(By the way, that's a lesson learned for next year if we make it out to the midwest again. I'll have to research how much those things are.)

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In the Northeast (NY, NJ, CT, MA) there is no charge for the EZ Pass system. There is a deposit on the device but the tolls are the same or is some cases actually less than the cash lane. It is a great invention and an incedible time saver. I often wonder why almost everyone doesn't have one. I don't look at EZ Pass as a class issue, but rather as a prior planning issue.

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Lord Gonchar said:

The fact that SF's attendance dropped by 12%, but revenue dropped just 1% says to me it's starting to work. And those numbers are meaningless unless you really put it in simple terms and think about it, so lets do that based on those 3rd quarter results:

In 2005 - In a generic given time period 100 people come through the gate and spend a total of $100

In 2006 - During that same time period 88 people come through the gate and spend a total of $99

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Well it's more a case of they paid $15, then came through the gate and spent $84. :)

What I'd be interested in seeing is what percentage of the total park revenue comes from Qbot rentals. Or chainwide, how much of the 546 million in revenue comes from Qbot rentals.

Deporat, that's cool. It works like the old ticket books I used to have to buy to travel I-95 up north into Harford County for work. You buy so many tickets, and you save money. Since I now travel the free Baltimore Beltway and I-83 to get to work, there's no reason to have such a device.

Since we would've only saved money in PA and IL, I'm not sure the deposit for the device would've made a significant difference–-just in time in the case of the Chicago Skyway under construction at 4 p.m.

You're right that most of the tolls are actually less than the cash lane (.10 to .20 less), but the amount can vary by time of day (peak hours vs. off-peak hours). The Tappan Zee bridge actually has a carpool discount, but you must have at least three people in your car (how they figure that out I don't know).

From what I read on Wikipedia, Illinois would've been included under I-pass on the Chicago Skyway, but Indiana isn't onboard until 2007. Ohio decided it wasn't worth the cost to covert to the EZ-Pass system, so it wouldn't have made a difference.

So you're right, it's definitely not a class issue, but, with the number of EZ-Pass or whatever they're called lanes outnumbering the cash lanes, it just feels that way.

As far as prior planning goes, picking out motels/hotels and buying stuff that was necessary for the trip was far more important. *** Edited 11/14/2006 2:43:41 AM UTC by Intamin Fan***

All these problems, and for what?

I don't visit SFGAdv much, because of the capacity issues and the "slap in the face" of Q-Bot. I have always said that it is a "scam", or at least it looks like a scam to "Average Joe".

If people go to a certain business a few times and have a bad experience, they start to take their business elsewhere.

A visit to SF is a hassle that can easily be advoided by going to Hersheypark or Dorney instead. I forsee the "GP" catching on to SF's "scam" sooner or later. Everywhere I have ever worked drilled into my head that the customer (or guest) was very important and that if they have a bad experience they will tell at least 10 people. It is very expensive to get people to come to your business (advertising), so once you get them there you better make sure that they leave with a good impression. SF fails to impress me each and every time I go, and even though it's not as often, I still go back (every 4 or 5 years), giving them another chance.

I think that Q-Bot was part of the reason SF lost customers a few years ago, and this year some returned to see if anything had changed. In the press, all SF talked about was that they were committed on giving a great experience, and from what I have been hearing, they failed. I will be very interested in seeing the numbers next year. My guess is that a lot of people who came this year because of the promise of improvments that were not delivered will not return.

I always see a lot of great "common sense" ideas on Coasterbuzz about what SF could do to improve. Basicly, run SF like you want your guests to have a good time. I keep hearing that all of the amusement business's big shots frequent this site. So why do we not see action? Why do they keep doing that which hurts their overall reputation? I bet if they ran their rides at full capacity when needed for just one year, guests would tell others that they had a great time (maybe not even realizing why) and the company's public perception would snowball in a positive direction.

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dexter said:
I have always said that it is a "scam", or at least it looks like a scam to "Average Joe".

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The line for the Q-bot sometimes surpasses that of the regular rides. So, either people really don't care....or, these Average Joes are average sheep. I'd like the beleive its the former.

As others have said, I don't have a problem with QBot itself (providing premium service for a premium price is capitalism at work), but rather in how it's being used.

These things should be implemented AFTER the basic customer experience is correct. Run the rides at capacity, make sure the basic guests are happy, THEN roll out the bonus features. Otherwise what you're doing is charging more for what WAS the basic experience at one point. *** Edited 11/14/2006 2:12:20 PM UTC by GregLeg***

Just a theory....if the Chicago-area park ran the way the NJ park does, I wonder how long before the attendance drop out-stripped the gains made by Qbot rentals...

By the same token, if the NJ park ran the way the Chicago park does, how long before the gain in attendance would make up for the loss of Bot rentals (or would there even BE any drop in Bot rentals)...

I guess what I'm thinking is: Maybe SF *has* caught on to the idea of differential markets, and is sinmply exploiting the situation to fullest advantage? Note that the word *exploit*, in this particular case, is not (necessarily) intended to carry negative connotations...

Yikes! I think Gonch is converting me to a (gasp!)...capitalist... ;)

I'm not a fan of the extra price for a Q-Bot but when I went to SFGAdv for the first time in 2005 I went ahead and got the "Gold Bot" (even though it costs more than the regular bot).

I must say that thing was my best friend the entire day as I was able to ride a lot of things I probably wouldn't have been able to if I just waited in the regular line even though all multi-train coasters ran all trains.

Best Photo Ever (closing day at SFGAdv)

The only thing missing is a note at the bottom directing guests to the Flash Pass purchase booth. :)

And a note that says thanks for the $15 parking fee if you turn around and leave.

I think comparing Great Adventure and Great America is kind of hard to do. Even if you were able to get things to Great America levels, you still don't have a) a humongous free waterpark to siphon people off during the summer (GADV does have the safari but that's extra) b) lots of flats to keep people off the coasters and c) there isn't the level of troublesome coasters at SFGAM like GADV with KK, El Toro (I think this could be fixed easily for next year) and Batman & Robin The Chiller being down almost the whole year doesn't help either