Storm Runner and controling the speed

Wednesday, August 18, 2004 12:26 PM
I was at Hershey Park yesterday and I noticed something different about Storm Runner. When we first arrived, I noticed that it was testing and the last 2 rows of brake fins on the launch track were left in the up position during a launch. Once we got on, all of the fins dropped. By the end of the day, they were launching trains and the last 3 rows were left in the up position. Does Storm Runner have a way of controling the speed of the train? I haven't noticed this happening on Dragster at all...
Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:10 PM
Wow, Trimming the ride. That Sucks. Does the train go alot slower over the top now?
Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:40 PM
Wow, when i was at Hershey i didn't notice that happen. Did the train roll back on the tophat?
Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:42 PM
I saw them do this on TTD at CP when I was there in June. I mentioned it to the attendant at the entrance and one of the ops in the station they said not to worry about it. So I guess they are trimming the rockets? I posted about this over on Pointbuzz when I got home from CP...
Wednesday, August 18, 2004 2:43 PM
It is impossible to intentionally leave a set of brakes up on Dragster. I'm really curious about this also. I wonder if keeping brakes retracted is how Storm Runner's computer controls the speed of the ride rather than just adjusting launch speed. *** Edited 8/18/2004 6:44:01 PM UTC by Michael19887*** *** Edited 8/18/2004 9:58:42 PM UTC by Michael19887*** *** Edited 8/18/2004 10:04:04 PM UTC by Michael19887***
Wednesday, August 18, 2004 3:51 PM
This has never happened on Xcelerator.
Wednesday, August 18, 2004 3:59 PM
I have seen this on TTD before also.
Wednesday, August 18, 2004 4:28 PM
Are you sure those aren't the fins for the launch sled?
Wednesday, August 18, 2004 5:04 PM
TTD just has problems with it's brake fins. Sometimes they don't go down properly, I doubt its intentional. Considering it barely makes it over anyway.

I don't get why they would be doing this, Since any hydraulic launch system can be fine tuned to the speed its needed to be launched at.

Wednesday, August 18, 2004 8:05 PM
I noticed on our last couple of rides with three fins up that we were not making it over the hill as fast. I don't think Storm Runner rolls back that much, if at all. But, yeah, the train definately seems slower with the some fins up. It's actually sort of weird because you hit 72mph but you slow down before going up the hill. I've never felt this on Dragster or Xcelerator. *** Edited 8/19/2004 12:06:15 AM UTC by S2K***
Wednesday, August 18, 2004 8:19 PM
I know when I was there on August 6 and 7 (CP) that that was TTD's problem. The fins just stopped going down. The 6th I was on it in the station and the train in front of us launched, but the fins stayed up. The next day they got a couple trains to launch, but then after those two only half of the fins would go down.
Thursday, August 19, 2004 1:02 PM
Isn't the braking power with these magnetic brakes directly proportional to the train speed? As in, the faster the train is going, the harder the brakes slow the train? Isn't that why the magnetic brakes can actually never fully stop a train? So if that theory is true, then wouldn't a train ripping along at 120mph (TTD) or 72mph (SR) be slowed considerably if a brake fin or two were not retracted at the end of the launch?
Thursday, August 19, 2004 2:16 PM
Actually, the power of the magnetic brakes on rocket coasters is affected by the weight in the train moreso than speed. A fully loaded train on Dragster comes to a complete stop in Hold 2 (the 2nd of the 3 blocks at the end of the final brake run). However, empty trains and trains with only one test rider normally stop before they even reach brake block (the last of the 3 blocks at the end of the brake run).

If SR's launch speed is controlled by a hydraulic speed controller it is identical to Dragster.

Thursday, August 19, 2004 2:48 PM
Michael, You can't really believe that the weight of one person would make a difference in how the train would stop in the magnetic brakes. The train's weight is what...over 10 tons? That is 20,000 pounds. An "average" person weighs (let's be generous to make the math easy) 200 pounds. That person in the train is only 0.9% of the entire weight of the loaded train.

Fully loaded with eighteen 200 lb individuals, the riders only account for 15.25% of the entire weight of the loaded train.

Weight is not the's the speed. See Rideman's descripton of S:ROS's magnetic braking here... *** Edited 8/19/2004 6:49:25 PM UTC by redman822***

Thursday, August 19, 2004 2:56 PM
^^ No, the pull of the brakes is affected by the speed of the train.

A lighter train stops faster because(for lack of a better way to put it) there's less weight, but an equal amount of pull(braking power)because of the speed(which theoretically is constant regardless of weight).

It's kind of like slamming your car's brakes all the way to the floor when you're in the car by yourself, versus when you have a car full of people and groceries or whatever.

Make Sense?


edit: put the double ^^ to say I was talking to Michael, not you George.

*** Edited 8/19/2004 6:58:50 PM UTC by Raven-Phile***

Thursday, August 19, 2004 4:12 PM
I know one person doesn't affect the speed at which the ride brakes. I'm just saying that when the train is lightly or not loaded at all, the train stops faster than when it is loaded. The weight in the train is what affects the speed of the ride by the hydraulic speed controller. The brakes of the ride aren't applying any extra force when the trains are loaded, it just takes longer to stop them because of the extra weight. I thought that Shane was thinking that the faster a loaded train went, the brakes themselves were applying more force.

Dragster actually travels 3-4 miles per hour or so faster when the trains are empty. Almost every morning during test riding we hit 125/126 - and the ride always stops before it hits the first set of blocks. When the trains are fully loaded the ride normally hits 120-122 and doesn't stop until hold 2. I looked at that explanation of RoS's brakes, and it is very accurate - its just hard to directly compare that to rocket coasters because the computer does not alter the initial speed of RoS based on the previous launch time which is usually affected by weight. *** Edited 8/19/2004 8:14:00 PM UTC by Michael19887***

Thursday, August 19, 2004 5:08 PM
^ Regardless of the launch speed, the brakes' pull IS equally proportioned to the speed of the train. Weight has nothing to do do with how much force the brakes apply.

Shane *was* saying that the faster the train went, the more force was applied because that is the case.

If you had a stationary magnet and a fin with a handle on it (there was a company with this setup at IAAPA) that you could play with, you can run the fin through the magnet fairly easily if you go very slowly. If you take the magnet back and try to give it a good shove, it's like hitting a brick wall, and it's impossible to make it all the way through without slowing way down.

This same thing applies to TTD and MF, and all the rides with the magnet brake setup. Magnetic brakes have a target speed and regardless of how fast a train is going, it WILL get there. Let's take the Beast at PKI for example. What happens when you get to the end of the shed? SLAM - you feel the pull of the brakes bringing the train to the target speed it is supposed to be at when exiting the shed.

It's the same thing with TTD, no matter how fast a train is going, it WILL stop by the end of the brake run. If the train is travelling at 150MPH for some reason, it will stop because the force of the brakes is equal to the speed of the train.

Got it??


edit: eye kan spele gud

*** Edited 8/19/2004 9:09:28 PM UTC by Raven-Phile***

Thursday, August 19, 2004 5:53 PM
Josh, I don't think we are discussing this from the same point of view. What you are saying is right, but I'm taking it a step back and talking about it from the beginning of launch and how the speed is controlled. The speed of the launch is set based upon how long it took the previous train to reach dozens of sensors throughout the ride and the time over tower. The hydraulic speed controller uses the previous launch to determine the reduction for the next launch. If a fully loaded train rolls out to launch and makes it over in the proper amount of time, the reduction for the next launch will be identical to that launch. However, if the next trains rolls out with a few empty seats and lighter guests it will rollback or make it over at a much slower speed because the speed of that launch was set to the heavier train. This is what I mean by saying the weight affects the speed and braking of the ride. The brakes will not apply as forcefully since the train went slowly over the tower because of the weight in it. Since that train went over slowly, the computer lowers the speed reduction for the next launch. If the next train that launches is fully loaded, it will weigh more and therefore will travel over the tower at a faster pace because its reduction was set to a lighter train, making the brakes apply harder because of the faster speed determined by the weight in the train. See what I'm saying?

Thursday, August 19, 2004 5:58 PM

Comet Rider said:
The brake fins you saw at the end of the launch run are for the catch car, to stop it at the end of the run.

Then why during the test run were these brakes not "up" during launching? The number of rows that were left up changed throughout the course of the day...ranging from none at testing, to 2 rows during my first ride, to 3 rows during my last ride. I don't know what else that could prove other than they do, in fact, trim the launch. If it's used to stop the catchcar, then what was stopping the catchcar during testing?

Thursday, August 19, 2004 6:24 PM
I don't have anything to ad on how those magnetic fins work...I just wanted to say I've never seen this happen at Knotts. Odd that they're having problems with the other two.



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