State ends investigation of Top Thrill Dragster accident at Cedar Point

The seat definitely moved when it came back. What you can't see is the damage it did to the train, and those two riders are lucky to still have legs.

I'm not convinced the ride is going anywhere, especially considering the outcome of the investigation (no fault of the park, freak accident/failure). I'd be sad to see it go, the launch for me is still one of the best experiences of any ride, period. The ride is still very popular among guests and is quite an iconic CP attraction. Understood it is a high maintenance attraction, but there are many rides that are (hello, X2!). If popular, they are worth keeping around within reason.

I understand it nearly killed someone, but that isn't reason enough to remove the ride (see Texas Giant, SROS accidents, Matternhorn, Big Thunder Mountain Railroad, Drop Zone @ SFGam, etc...) in which people were killed and the rides continued to run after the fact with processes/changes in place to eliminate/reduce the risk of it occurring again.

As far as the failure itself, part of me wonders if the threadlocker used (likely 271 in this case, given the comment on requiring torch to remove) was a bad batch, old, etc... In the aerospace industry, when we use a threadlocker in an assembly, often we are required to check the product and measure its performance for use in a flight application. Taking running and breakaway torques and confirming with the manufacturer data sheet to verify it meets specifications, as well as having all the traceability documentation. I would not guess this as the source of failure (and more on the fastener itself), but the fact that more than the one train had fasteners backing out/loose according to the report is a bit suspect. Having been apart of several vibe/shock tests on hardware, you should see how fastener can back itself out if the Loctite or incorrect torque was used to secure the fastener… Thing spins out and gets thrown across the room within seconds.

For the fix, there is a variety of methods to address the risk of these flag plates failing again in the same way. I’m sure they could figure something out to eliminate the risk of this occurring again.

With the investigation done, I just think the park is taking the time to work with Intamin (among others) to fix the root cause, as well as likely planning/adding protective barriers around the queue line, etc… I think we will still hear “Arms down, head back and hold on!” blasting down the midway in 2023 (or at least I hope!).

Just my thoughts. But time will tell, of course.

I wish I could say the amount of non-satirical "I want a refund on my Gold Pass" fake outrage I have read online surprises me, but it doesn't.

That Xcelerator video was what I was thinking of. I wonder how many "freak accidents" this model of roller coaster can have before they start getting removed. Cedar Point has already removed the other Intamin ride with a questionable safety record (Shoot the Rapids), admittedly, it was not as popular of a ride.

When you build one of a kind, or prototype rides it is impossible to account for every single failure that could occur. Even on rides that have been built before, failure is always possible. These kind of things operate on a slider 😉. Anyway, can’t they just stick a cotter pin in the bolt as a fail safe?

I know TTD has been a maintenance headache since Day 1, but after browsing through the 600 page report, I am a bit surprised at just how much maintenance is involved in keeping the ride running. Before reading this, I wouldn't have understood why CP would consider removing it, but wow, a "maintenance nightmare" is probably an accurate description. I was also a bit surprised at how often the ride goes down in a day for technical issues.

With this being said, since CP has made the decision to keep it closed for 2022, I would think that if they were intendning to remove it, they would just start to dismantle it. What purpose does it serve to keep a ride closed or a year that they know they are going to get rid of? It's not like they can RMC it.

With all the legality involved, I doubt they are allowed to touch the ride at all until all the lawsuit-dust has settled. Think of it like a crime-scene.

I also doubt a final decision has been made one way or the other.

I was positive that CP would relocate or sell wicked twister.

SVLFever said:

I would think that if they were intendning to remove it, they would just start to dismantle it.

Dismantling a 400' tall structure that's surrounded by other stuff you don't want it to fall on seems like it would not be easy, and would require specialized crews and equipment that you would have to schedule well in advance. I don't think they would want the center of the park to be a demolition zone during the season. Which doesn't mean they've decided to remove TTD, or that OhioStater is incorrect about it being necessary evidence for a potential lawsuit - just that I wouldn't read anything into the fact that it's still standing.

('Course, I'm often wrong about this sort of thing.)

Would pending litigation really keep them from moving forward with it now? It's been combed over and documented pretty thoroughly by a lot of people including some third parties. What would they run across now that they haven't already? I'm not saying anyone is wrong about that, just looking at it from a different angle.

Jeff said:

Where are you "hearing" this, because it's probably nonsense.

Universal bought from Intamin, but my understanding is that they worked directly with Europe and had non-trivial involvement in the engineering.

Universal had an guy at Creative come up with the layout and then, Daniel Schoppen and his team of designers worked together to bring the layout to life. They integrated all the tricks that Universal wanted, like the continuous load, 12 trains operation and the various elements together, such as the high speed track switches and two freefall sections. Intamin has a sales person who replaced Sandor for the Americas now.

While the high speed track switch was a new element coaster wise, the freefall track sections are now reliable, with successful installations at Alton Towers and Italy before Hagrid's opened from Intamin. Zierer supplied a few of them for two coasters and other rides and even Zamperla and Jinma Rides (Golden Horse if you prefer) opening some in China.

For launch coasters with lower speeds, Intamin and Gerstlauer have been successful with tire drives. Looking at a park in France who built a two launch Intamin coaster with pretty quads as ride vehicles, they mentioned the tire drive system use 50% less electricity then LSM's, but the ceiling for those is around 30-35 mph. Tire wear is usually not an issue, but with Hagrid's launching trains so often and the limitless budget both for construction and operation, I can understand why Universal went with LSM's for Hagrid's.

The main reason for the operational issues at the start on Hagrid's was Universal not letting Intamin finish troubleshooting the ride prior to opening. They had an opening date in mind to beat Disney's Galaxy's Edge and they wanted it no matter what.

Intamin has been using Inautec for years now for their control systems and they are quite reliable and capable of running the weirdest and oddest rides out there. Still, Intamin now recommends a few months of Test and Adjust before opening a major ride, which some clients do and others don't. Parc Asterix is currently building Toutatis, a quadruple LSM launch coaster which is like the scaled up version of Pantheon. The ride is stated for a 2023 opening, but steel and track is going up right now so Indrivetec (who supply the LSM's and magnetic brakes) and Inautec (control system) can take their time getting the ride to run perfect.

Jeff said:

Where are you "hearing" this, because it's probably nonsense.

Universal bought from Intamin, but my understanding is that they worked directly with Europe and had non-trivial involvement in the engineering.

I heard it from a freekin' YouTube video. Now that you mention it, it does sound like nonsense. Now I understand better how Covid misinformation starts spreading. Thanks for calling me out on that.

This is why CoasterBuzz is so great.

hambone said:

Dismantling a 400' tall structure that's surrounded by other stuff you don't want it to fall on seems like it would not be easy, and would require specialized crews and equipment that you would have to schedule well in advance. I don't think they would want the center of the park to be a demolition zone during the season.

Yeah, you are right. The park will be opening in less than 3 months, and getting all that scheduled and done prior to season opening, would be impossible.

I also agree with Bigboy. I think there is enough documentation that it could be dismantled with litigation going on, as I think the state report was probably the last piece of that puzzle.

So, I guess we wait until either the park says something else, or some other activity occurs. I guess the Dippin' Dots guy will be quite busy this summer.

Absimilliard said:
Universal had an guy at Creative come up with the layout...

Yeah, I know that guy. 🙂

.When TTD was built, a documentary (don't ask me to find it) stated that there are 4 cranes in the entire world big enough to construct the ride, and CP had 2 of them. Something like this does not happen overnight and those cranes were most likely scheduled many years in advance.

TTD most certainly will not be torn down next weekend. Another possibility would be to bring in a demolition crew, to use explosives like they do with buildings in tight downtown areas. That could be planned much quicker I'm sure, but still take a long time to plan safely.

I'm not convinced that it's going to be torn down or that it will eventually re-open. I refuse to speculate because what the heck do I know? I'll know what's going to happen when I read it on the internet, just like the rest of us will.

I know the report said it was not intended to diagnose how the failure happened, but I still feel like I read a cliff-hanger and am waiting for the next episode.

I wouldn't be surprised if TTD is done for good. How many more accidents need to occur before finally pulling the plug? As Jeff mentioned, the ride has been a maintenance headache from the beginning and expensive to operate. Just a couple years after TTD opened, Dick Kinzel himself even admitted it was a mistake.

Given the enormous undertaking of bringing the ride down, should the park opt to not reopen the ride, it could very well continue to stand for several years.

A good point I saw on Screamscape is the CP doesn’t like to build queue live buildings and a queue line building might be a solution to protect guests from the launch

The lack of queue buildings (and comfortable shade is one of Cedar Fairs biggest faults IMO. It appears in this case, not building a more protective structure has increased their liability in this case and would further make them liable if another guest ever gets hurt if a rude mode chucks a piece into one of their bare queues.

A legitimate question I have been thinking. Say that instead of hitting the guest, the piece landed in the lagoon and no one noticed and the ride E-Stopped itself. What would the call to action have been in that case? Make repairs and reopen? Or would that particular failure still result in an extended multi season shut down?