stacking question

this is going to sound really dumb, but what is stacking???

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I am one.
I am Turbo.

Stacking is the term used in a multi-train operation when the first train finishes the course and has to sit on the brake behind the station wating for the second train to be loaded and dispatched. Ideally, in a two train op, the only point where a train should stop is in the station and not on the brake behind the station. In a three train operation, sometimes trains stack for a few seconds while the train ahead is being dispatched. Magnum is an example of this. Cedar Point and many other parks run three trains on most of their rides with minimal stacking. Some parks can't run two trains without stacking. It all depends on how good the crew is and the operations procedures in place at the specific park.

-Matt
2001 Magnum Crew
2003 Magnum Crew

Stacking is BAAAAAAAAAAD
We did as little of it as possible on Raptor. Intervals was the goal of the day! :)
For an example of stacking see: Mantis
And Matt-shut the **** up! ;)
(I can not believe you're going back again this season-are you crazy? Of course maybe I'd better shut up cause the '03 crew is already asking if I'm coming back later this season..instead of a "no way" I'm thinking, "maybe!" :))

Jo
2000/2002 Raptor Crew
Lifetime Raptor flights: 708 :)
Going for 1k in 2003 :)
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It's all about getting around the barrels or over the fences, right leads, no faults, fastest time and still looking pretty when done. What's so hard about that? :)

Matt, some parks can't run ONE train without stacking. Figure that one out!

But then, some parks are talented that way. I can think of two rides off hand that have had collisions with single-train operation! :)

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

RaptorJo....really quite unfair to pick on a crew for stacking when it's a stand-up coaster....yes, *even* at CP. It seems near-impossible to get people to stand up AND secure restraints properly...not sure why, but it is...

At SFKK, they minimize stacking on Chang with an innovative solution...running one train...;)

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rollergator said:
RaptorJo....really quite unfair to pick on a crew for stacking when it's a stand-up coaster....yes, *even* at CP. It seems near-impossible to get people to stand up AND secure restraints properly...not sure why, but it is...
I was only kidding of course, I am well aware what causes the stacking on Mantis. The inability of people to LISTEN to directions. I was just poking fun at the Mantis crew since they always tease us. They always go out of their way to tell the riders that Mantis is better than Raptor. I say "yea, sure it is!!" ;)

Jo
2000/2002 Raptor Crew
Lifetime Raptor flights: 708 :)
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It's all about getting around the barrels or over the fences, right leads, no faults, fastest time and still looking pretty when done. What's so hard about that? :)

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The best ride I've *ever* gotten on Mantis wasn't as good as the worst ride I've ever gotten on Raptor...then again, maybe it's just my strong preference for inverteds...;). And Raptor seems to age SO gracefully, certainly wouldn't say that about Mantis (or any other B&M standup)...

(/begin rant) P.S. Stacking *plain sucks*, and I wish some other parks would give a thought as to what makes CP so successful....it ain't JUST the investment strategy...;). People just hate waiting in lines....and if you make the line MOVE, even a long line SEEMS shorter...all about the *perception* of being a valued customer...maybe there IS something to this business degree after all, LOL. (/end rant)
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Dr. Thrill IS my family practitioner
Bracketology, half art, half science, ALL excitement...:)

I'll tell you the primary cause for stacking when I worked on coasters: Slow/Mentally Incapable Guests. They take forever to take their seat, and/or they can't figure out the seat belt. God forbid you work at a stand-up... people generally don't listen to live spiels. Carowinds had a good idea in Vortex's station... an actual diagram of how to rid ea stand up. What a novel idea... pictures for people who can't read or listen...

Whoops.... how'd THAT slip out?

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Is that a Q-bot in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?

So CP guests are smarter? I certainly don't think so. I still chalk it up to good crews and the right emphasis by operations management.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com - Sillynonsense.com
"The world rotates to The Ultra-Heavy Beat!" - KMFDM

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RideMan said:
Matt, some parks can't run ONE train without stacking. Figure that one out!

But then, some parks are talented that way. I can think of two rides off hand that have had collisions with single-train operation! :)

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

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SFNE "stacks" with one train on Superman. The train ALWAYS comes to a stop behind the station, even if the station is totally clear. I'm not sure if this is a limitation of the magnetic brakes or just bad programming.

Collisions with one train? Are you talking about collisions with trucks like at PKI? ;)

General Public - while you are right in that the people do cause slowdowns, the fact remains that with proper staffing and proper operations procedures, most rides can be run a a capacity that is at least close to their max.

-Matt
2001 Magnum Crew
2003 Magnum Crew

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Jeff said:
So CP guests are smarter? I certainly don't think so. I still chalk it up to good crews and the right emphasis by operations management.

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Jeff, I couldn't and wouldn't disagree that good crews AND emphasizing capacity are key (multiple trains on the track at ONCE....heaven forbid!). But CP guests in my experience ARE smarter....but then again, I think Ohioans in general VISIT parks more often than average. Also, I think the park sets the *tone* of "move it along" by having the lines move. Customers take their cue from the ops....slow ops set a BAD precedent. I just think that guests react accordingly, and if they feel that their time is valued by the park, then they'll TEND to respond in kind....

No such thing as an absolute, but "on the margin" (where we economists live), that's the way it tends to work out....
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Dr. Thrill IS my family practitioner
Bracketology, half art, half science, ALL excitement...:)

Single-train collisions: Two coasters, similar causes...

SFGAm American Eagle: One train operating, drawbar between cars #2 and #3 breaks, train comes apart, car #3 (and back of train) collides with car #2 (and front of train) upon returning to station.

Geauga Lake Big Dipper: One train operating, spring on drawbar breaks allowing two cars to collide with one another on station approach trim brake. In that case, the design of the drawbar is such that the train didn't come apart, but the loss of the coupler spring allowed the cars to bump into each other.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

PC's Vortex has to be the worst "stacker" I've ever ridden.... nothing like standing up for 10 minutes waiting to arrive in the station...... But I still really enjoy Vortex..... Mantis was a let down..... I hate trims on first drops...... ill stop rambling now.....

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MDOmnis said:

SFNE "stacks" with one train on Superman. The train ALWAYS comes to a stop behind the station, even if the station is totally clear. I'm not sure if this is a limitation of the magnetic brakes or just bad programming.

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Its been doing that since day one so I'd say its just a magnetic brake limitation. I've just accepted that it needs to come to a complete stop.

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SFNE Central v4- Online Six Flags New England Resource
CBuzzer since September 2001 with a few bumps along the way. :)

MDOmni:

I don't remember the coaster, but there was at least on case where the train broke in half and the rear half then slammed into the front half. Blame that one on maintenance not operations.
*** This post was edited by Jim Fisher 3/20/2003 7:18:56 PM ***

I know the biggest stacking coasters are B&M Satndups cuz people are always sitting in the seat wrong with feet dangling, too big, want to sit down, etc. Then we have to unlock the whole row and fix it. Trust me I know.

A-Rod
*** This post was edited by X Marks The Spot 3/20/2003 7:24:37 PM ***

Okay. We'll trust you... "cuz" not that any of us have ever ridden a stand-up before and have seen it with our own eyes.

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- John
Dag, yo

Seroiusly, you actually think that the average CP guest is "smarter" than the average PKI or SFWoA guest? Gimme a break!

CP's "secret" (if you can call it that) is more ops on the platform, that's it. Most other parks usually don't have more than one person per side checking restraints. Some parks sometimes have two per side on really busy days, but rarely as a general rule. CP often has 3 per side.
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SCREAM with me... in 2003!

Well, more people on the platform is part of it, if not most of it, anyway. There is more to it. Until recently, Cedar Point had no platform gates because they tend to slow operations, and the gate installations at CP are set up to automatically open as the train stops. Cedar Point also measures heights and handles most prohibited items before riders get trackside, so that platform attendants can concentrate on loading and unloading trains, not on measuring kids and collecting crap. And possibly most important, I don't know how they do it, but Cedar Point gives operators ownership of the ride such that they actually give a crap about keeping the capacity up. It's not any one factor, but a whole collection of reasons that keep that park's capacity high.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

That's something I hadn't considered. How many parks allow their ride ops total discretion to add and remove trains? I have to say that "ride pride" is a pretty big deal around there. The ongoing rivalry between Magnum and Raptor can get pretty intense, one crew after another.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com - Sillynonsense.com
"The world rotates to The Ultra-Heavy Beat!" - KMFDM