Six Flags will close Six Flags America at the end of the 2025 season

Sharpel007:

Age of steel, electrical demands, maintenance cost of LIM’s…

OK, but those are all things that would preclude it from operating in place as well.

I suspect most parks would need to invest in their electrical infrastructure in order to support Joker's Jinx and its outdated, inefficient launch system. This doesn't make relocation impossible, it just makes it more costly.

Out of curiosity, how different are the Superman trains that were put in new from the Millennium Force trains at Cedar Point? I know they are both Intamin.

Inefficient according to whom? I'm not trying to be obstinate, but these things come up all of the time in enthusiast circles and aren't based on anything other than speculation.

They do appear to be more inefficient, now how much that matters over a period of time I don't know, since the launch isn't happening continuously. I did find a peer reviewed research paper on the use of propulsion technologies for maglev trains, using LIM/LSM and the cost difference is quite large. Mostly in power, but also in manufacturing costs, again, a train vs a roller coaster is vastly different, but quite similar.

Assuming that the length of the maglev railway line is 30 km, the service life of the mid-and-low speed maglev train is 25 years, and the maglev train runs 12 hours a day, we could obtain the overall performance of the two machines, as shown in Table IV. The PM-LSM(S) represents the PM-LSM of rectangular conductor section with aspect ratio of 8:1. The reference prices of aluminum, back-iron, supporter, silicon steel, PM and electricity are $2200 per ton, $700 per ton, $1700 per ton, $1000 per ton, $120000 per ton and $0.15 per kWh.

Since I can't seem to get the photo to post of the table,

Efficiency of the LIM was 70.18% and the LSM was 95.17%, power factor of the LSM is one compares to the LSM at 0.814. Power costs in millions, 18.78 for the LIM and 13.85 for the LSM. Total costs with manufacturing was 22.15 for the LIM and 16.96 for the LSM.

That's some nerd level analysis even for Coasterbuzz. The Premier spaghetti bowl rides have been operating for 30 years, none of them have closed for good yet. Yeah, Joker could be the first, but why is it being discussed as if it's a sure thing?

As you said, it has trains and stuff.

I don't think it triggered any of this speculation, but the non-US Spaghetti Bowl (Crazy Cobra at Suzuka) is closing in 2026 as it has "reached the end of its service life".

I wonder if the decision as to whether to scrap a ride like that comes down to if you operate others of the same type. I.e. if you're a chain with four of them ... scrap Joker's Jinx and that'll extend the life of Poltergeist and the FoFs by x years by providing them with a load of parts (Lots of Dragster and KK bits shown up at Knotts for Xcelerator).

That one already moved once so the parts are probably more worn down. Probably cross threaded some of the bolts when it was reassembled and stuff.

Vater:

Plus it's been over 25 years, Six Flags probably lost the instructions by now.

Oooh, I found them!

My speculation is just speculation and comes down more to wondering what park/chain would choose the expense of relocating a 25+ year old coaster (especially Joker or the SLC) over investing more initially in a brand new ride that will provide a significantly better ride experience and be an investment that lasts 25+ years.

Mr. Six:

I suspect most parks would need to invest in their electrical infrastructure in order to support Joker's Jinx and its outdated, inefficient launch system. This doesn't make relocation impossible, it just makes it more costly.

Great Adventure might have the power grid to support it since it had Batman and Robin the Chiller which they altered the grid because of and then Kingda Ka.

Of course the next ride might eat all the power that Ka did.

Jeff:

Inefficient according to whom? I'm not trying to be obstinate, but these things come up all of the time in enthusiast circles and aren't based on anything other than speculation.

I did some research on this a while ago for a trip report.

The LIM system on Flight of Fear (and thus Joker) uses around 2 MW to launch (4200-4500 amps at 480V).
https://web.archive.org/web...l/king.htm

The LSM system on Blue Fire peaks at 1MW.
https://parkworld-online.com/blue-fire/

Maybe they could retrofit the track and trains for LSM and move the coaster. If it's a success.... Retrofit the rest?

The instantaneous power isn't the number we're after though... it's the energy user per launch, presumably in kWh.

The Premier spaghetti bowl rides have been operating for 30 years, none of them have closed for good yet

The power issues they all caused their first 5 years of operation is well documented, obviously much more is known how to keep them running reliably now, but it took alot of power upgrades at parks installed at to get them there.

trains for LSM and move the coaster. If it's a success.... Retrofit the rest?

At what cost to move and retrofit a 25 year old ride, vs to build new compact LSM Vekoma that is more fun?

MA and VF have could surely use multiple things from the park… but if Green Lantern GrAdv at its age getting scraped instead of relocated proved where they stand on the issue, we shall see if it holds.

Where they stand on relocating Green Lantern > standing on Green Lantern

Jeff:
The instantaneous power isn't the number we're after though... it's the energy user per launch, presumably in kWh.

Why aren't we interested in instantaneous power? Power is what the ride demands from the park's electrical infrastructure.

I thought we were talking about efficiency as a cost thing, which is total power draw, not peaks. Peaks are certainly more problematic for the grid, so they need to be considered as well, but as far as operational costs. Power over time is the desired number.

Jeff:

Inefficient according to whom? I'm not trying to be obstinate, but these things come up all of the time in enthusiast circles and aren't based on anything other than speculation.

Popular YouTubers speculate something, and enthusiasts echo chamber it until it becomes fact.

Kind of like how all older B&M's are reaching their end of service life since Hulk at IOA got retracked. So now Kumba is going to be closed for good.......oh wait.

Maybe Superman can't be moved because it's sinking?

Even without reading Richard's interesting link, it's logical to assume technology would have improved in the 30 years since the Premier spaghetti bowl debuted. Otherwise they would still be using those LIMs on new rides.

TheMillenniumRider:
I thought we were talking about efficiency as a cost thing, which is total power draw, not peaks.

Large primary-metered customers often have a demand charge ($/kW) in addition to energy usage charge ($/kWh).